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[Aostia]

Even if it means 720p max for the entire generation? Smash 5 running at a lower resolution than Smash 4?

Smash 4 3ds didn't run at 720p at all.
The rumors clearly describe a portable.
If there will not be nothing else it simply means that they exit the home segment

 

[Kissenkopf]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the underpowered CPU was necessitated by the need (or rather, what Nintendo wrongly perceived as the need) to maintain Wii BC, combined with the extremely low TDP.

Even without targeting XB1/PS4 performance, they could easily have made a cheap box that comfortably outperformed PS3/360 in every respect if they hadn't had such woefully misguided design priorities.

Yep, you are correct. They wanted a machine with full BC and which doesn't consume much energy.
But I guess they know this kind of thinking was a mistake in the end.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Yep, you are correct. They wanted a machine with full BC and which doesn't consume much energy.
But I guess they know this kind of thinking was a mistake in the end.

They could have used less power with more modern hardware. ^_^

 

[Kissenkopf]

They could have used less power with more modern hardware. ^_^

But then they couldn't have this great BC what EVERY Wii U user uses. ;P

 

[blu]

I mean more to the point of the perceivable effect on performance and visual quality.

It really depends on the scenario - it's a matter of triangle-to-pixel ratio, and while on the average case the trisetup might not be a bottleneck, you can always get off-the-centre cases. Drop your res, crank up the tessellation, simplify your shading and watch the tri-rate become your bottleneck.

 

[Richie]

In my experience people rush towards the Wii Remotes and Pro Controllers because they're more familiar with them. And somebody has to make do with the GamePad.

Hahah that actually mirrors my experience as well, guess I worded myself wrong.

The impression I'm getting is exactly the opposite, everyone has a Wiimote in multiplayer, and Gamepad style in single player, no?

Wait, yeah, you may be right. Like, leaving the Gamepad style controller in the dock, removing its attached Wiimote-like controllers and using those in the TV. Yeaaah, I can see that!

...Then again you'd want to offer more traditional controllers for the likes of Smash and such, hmm...

 

[eifer]

So a Vita, Game Gear, GBA, GB, DS, 3DS, Tiger Electronics, etc... are all Wii U devices?

They had 6" screens with detachable controllers? Game Gear was too large and stupid to be successful. All of the others were small enough so that they were still portable. This will be a clunky nightmare. Who the hell is going to want to carry that around?

 

[Retrobox]

Oh my oh my, backwards compatibility is a very pro-consumer thing to do and in the end probably about 1% of Wii U users cared about it even remotely. So in the end, it did way more damage to the console than it did good.

Being the good guy is a thankless job.

 

[MuchoMalo]

But then they couldn't have this great BC what EVERY Wii U user uses. ;P

BC with a console you can now buy for $20 used which is a little bigger than 3 DVD cases. Good move, Nintendo. Keep it up.

 

[Father_Brain]

They had 6" screens with detachable controllers? Game Gear was too large and stupid to be successful. All of the others were small enough so that they were still portable. This will be a clunky nightmare. Who the hell is going to want to carry that around?

No one is going to choose it as their primary portable device over a smartphone regardless of whether or not it easily fits in a pocket. This is a secondary device that people will carry around in a bag, like they already do with tablets; as long as it's reasonably lightweight and portable, size shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Burai]

Yep, you are correct. They wanted a machine with full BC and which doesn't consume much energy.
But I guess they know this kind of thinking was a mistake in the end.

It was such a bizarre decision. You're forced to hold onto all of your accessories and games anyway and trade-in value on a Wii minus the pack-in items was effectively nothing.

The consoles were so slim they should have done a double-stand to keep the Wii and Wii U together, killing two birds with one stone.

 

[Peterc]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

 

[eifer]

No one is going to choose it as their primary portable device over a smartphone regardless of whether or not it easily fits in a pocket. This is a secondary device that people will carry around in a bag, like they already do with tablets; as long as it's reasonably lightweight and portable, size shouldn't be an issue.

But the argument I keep hearing is that this is targeting Japan cuz they prefer portables. But this is gonna be a mess compared to a cell phone. Why force it to be a handheld if it isn't a GOOD handheld?

 

[ozfunghi]

The reason they went with BC for WiiU instead of a new architecture, was simply because the Wii was their biggest console hit in history. By the time the Wii had lost the interest of millions of both casual and core gamers, the WiiU architecture had already been decided on.

If the Wii would have ended strong, and the WiiU had not seen BC, people would have said Nintendo were idiots not to build on the Wii userbase through BC.

 

[Peru]

But the argument I keep hearing is that this is targeting Japan cuz they prefer portables. But this is gonna be a mess compared to a cell phone. Why force it to be a handheld if it isn't a GOOD handheld?

Your argument doesn't make sense. It's not a cell phone. Non-cell phone handhelds are still popular in Japan. And in the west, despite rumours to the contrary.

 

[KingBroly]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

Add 1.5-2 inches on each side.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

You're forgetting the controllers that will add a lot of heft

 

[Ogodei]

They weren't totally off-base with the idea. The problem was the Wii U itself being so unappealing, but otherwise you would definitely want to emphasize continuity with your most successful console. That's why Sony took pains to get PS2 BC into the early PS3 despite adding cost to an already ruinously expensive box. Some people don't have room for more than one gaming device and it can be a hard sell to force them to choose between the box they have with 2 dozen games owned, hundreds available, and some more in the pipeline or the much more expensive box with 2 dozen games available period.

I wonder what kind of market research there is on backwards compatibility usage rates on machines that offered it.

 

[Rodin]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

Yeah that's perfect. They just need to optimize the bezel and avoid making the detachable controllers too big, while still making them comfortable to hold. It's not something super easy to balance, but i think they can manage.

If they make the bezel as thin as the N6P above and under the screen (in landscape, like in this pic), then it's already way better than the gamepad.

 

[KingBroly]

They weren't totally off-base with the idea. The problem was the Wii U itself being so unappealing, but otherwise you would definitely want to emphasize continuity with your most successful console. That's why Sony took pains to get PS2 BC into the early PS3 despite adding cost to an already ruinously expensive box. Some people don't have room for more than one gaming device and it can be a hard sell to force them to choose between the box they have with 2 dozen games owned, hundreds available, and some more in the pipeline or the much more expensive box with 2 dozen games available period.

I wonder what kind of market research there is on backwards compatibility usage rates on machines that offered it.

I think Nintendo would like backwards compatability, but at the same time it bit them hard in the ass with Wii U.

 

[Peterc]

You're forgetting the controllers that will add a lot of heft

If they are thin the controls can be slide over it like described in the patent. It wouldn't add much extra space

 

[eifer]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

So now add controllers to the sides of it, and it's much larger. Even worse if it actually has some ergonomics. And if it doesn't have ergonomics, imagine how uncomfortable gaming with it would be.

 

[Peterc]

So now add controllers to the sides of it, and it's much larger. Even worse if it actually has some ergonomics. And if it doesn't have ergonomics, imagine how uncomfortable gaming with it would be.

Read the post above your one

 

[GhostTrick]

This, and they thought that everyone would shift to GPGPU quickly. They were right about GPGPU, but they did it too early and took it too far.

Wii U GPU was too weak and old for decent use of GPGPU.

 

[Roto Prime]

Seriously, with NX and Neo very likely being revealed in September, August has been a slog from Hobbiton to the gaping asshole of Mordor.

Holy SHIT LMFAO!! You are too funny, Let's hope NX info does come to us in Sep, cause I can't take anymore rumors -_____-

 

[blu]

Wii U GPU was too weak and old for decent use of GPGPU.

I have a raytracer here that runs on R800 just as well as it does on Kepler. Just saying.

 

[mStudios]

NX it's been there all the time. Once you see it you'll realized that it's the combination of two previous Nintendo Console + a new feature.

 

[Peterc]

NX it's been there all the time. Once you see it you'll realized that it's the combination of two previous Nintendo Console + a new feature.

You know more?

 

[Filter]

I think people in here are obsessed with fitting portable devices in their pockets.
Pockets are tiny now. People don't wear cargo shorts and the pockets on women's clothes are generally just fake pockets, made to look like a pocket but with no actual opening.

When was the last time a portable was realistically pocketable? The GBA sp? At the limits would be the ds lite. Any larger than that and you've got this disturbing and uncomfortable lump straining your pants. Plus people will already be carrying a cellphone in their pocket if they can, and they won't be getting rid of that to quickdraw a Nintendo.

Give up on the pocket dreams. Put it in your handbag or manbag.

 

[javac]

One way to look at it is to look at the Wii U being to the Wii what the Neo is to the PS4. When you look at it that way it probably made more sense for Nintendo internally. Launched day 1 with compatibility with that huge Wii library and used peripherals everybody owned. The problem is it came way too late but at the same time why would it have come out any earlier if the Wii was doing as well as it was anyways, which begs the question why does the Wii U exist at all.

 

[MCN]

Why are people assuming the controllers will attach at the sides? Why couldn't it be a clamshell, where the controllers attach to the sides of the bottom half.

The bottom half could also house a big-ass battery and a card slot, while the main motherboard is in the top-half, behind the screen.

Here's a 5-minute concept I knocked up in Paint to demonstrate:

 

[michaelius]

But his concern is having two sets of assets.

Have you ever heard about PC gaming ?


And no you don't need two sets of assets just to have game playable in 720p and 1080p.

 

[Peltz]

There's still doubt I'm seeing that Eurogamer or Emily's rumors could be real and everyone is just piggybacking off of each other.

I feel like it's real, but there has to be more because this plug handheld into tv isn't really innovative.

Plus Kimishima said they're not doing anything related to Wii U or Wii and this thing almost sounds like a mash of both with a Gamepad with Wii like remote controls. Of course it's not an exact mash.

To be fair, Kimishima could be referring to the marketing of the device rather than the gameplay concept when saying that this will not be like the Wii or Wii U.

 

[120v]

The problem is it came way too late but at the same time why would it have come out any earlier if the Wii was doing as well as it was anyways, which begs the question why does the Wii U exist at all.

R&D was going on while tablets were set to be the next big thing, so i can see why they thought it was a good idea.

 

[ozfunghi]

Give up on the pocket dreams. Put it in your handbag or manbag.

Do you sell these bags?

Why are people assuming the controllers will attach at the sides? Why couldn't it be a clamshell, where the controllers attach to the sides of the bottom half.

The bottom half could also house a big-ass battery and a card slot, while the main motherboard is in the top-half, behind the screen.

Here's a 5-minute concept I knocked up in Paint to demonstrate:

It's what i've been thinking all along, that people are fixating too much on a WiiU/Vita setup. The middle space below in your mockup, could be a trackpad for when the tablet is docked perhaps. Even the NX-like device from Starfox has a design more like this than the WiiU.

 

[cyberheater]

This is 6'

I think the size is ok. Big enough and still could fit in someone's pocket

You are forgetting it's going to have physical controls on it.

 

[maquiladora]

NX it's been there all the time.

 

[Oersted]

You are forgetting it's going to have physical controls on it.

We are talking about a prototype. And Iwata did talk about multiple formfactors.

Who knows which size(s) we gonna end up with.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

You are forgetting it's going to have physical controls on it.

Which one could leave at home if just wanting to play touch screen only stuff on the go.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Have you ever heard about PC gaming ?


And no you don't need two sets of assets just to have game playable in 720p and 1080p.

Which is the point I was leading up to. Anyway, long story short they can put the GPU in the dock and only put in enough power that the game can run at 1080p and higher AA and no other changes. There's no development barrier created from having the GPU in the dock beyond a difference in memory management.

 

[The_Lump]

You are forgetting it's going to have physical controls on it.

Detachable physical controls and no, no one is forgetting that because that is the current 'negative du jour'.

The 6" screen is a decent size, and small enough to be portable. The physical controls can be added for comfortable gaming on the go (and the thing will still fit in your satchel/briefcase/rucksack/handbag) but they can also be removed if you want to sling the thing in your pocket or whatever. Its a good compromise.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Detachable physical controls and no, no one is forgetting that because that is the current 'negative du jour'.

...which you're going to need if you want to play it on the go; it seems unlikely you'd be able to fit them all in your pocket, whether detachable or not.

You seem to be under the impression that the system can be played without them when outside; I don't think that's the case. Instead, I'd wage they're detachable primarily for being played at home

 

[ggx2ac]

I agree. Third Party support is important and AAA western games need to be at least technically feasible.

I´ve been thinking a lot about this recently. At first I asked myself why did Nintendo chose the hybrid route?

The simple answer is because they are not able to support their handheld and home consoles at the time. But they could have build 2 distinct devices (NX console and NX handheld) that use the same architecture and all Nintendo first party games would be available on both systems.

Now let´s go one step further. Why is the rumored handheld part of the hybrid so powerful? Why is there a clear departure from the usual pattern? Nintendo always used cheap parts and the handheld was never about strong hardware power but this time it´s the most ambitious hardware Nintendo has ever used in a handheld by far.

The reason is the NX hybrid does everything what a traditional console does (at a lower console performance level). It will not only run Nintendo console games but AAA western games aswell. Nintendo knows they stil have a huge console audience and therefore the NX has to be an appealing console aswell. I doubt they will abandon their console userbase.

IMO they decided to make a hybrid because they were able to fulfill the following goals.

1) Console games run on the handheld at a respectable performance.
2) Console part of the NX is not too limited because it has mobile parts and stil appeals to the console audience.
3) Third party games run on the handheld and while docked.

I was too late to say something similar.

I'm trying to remember from the 3DS and Wii U gen if Iwata said anything about what anyone should have observed about these two hardware.

They would have noticed that their software was converging on the same path. You have Mario Kart 7 and 8, Super Mario 3D Land and World, New Super Mario Bros 2 and U, Super Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U.

What's the point of making two of the same game? 3DS pretty much ended up cannibalising Wii U sales because people were content with the 3DS library.

So in that sense, why are they making a hybrid? Well, think about it. If they decided to make a handheld that can be as powerful as a Wii U, they wouldn't go ahead and make a home console as powerful as a PS4 Neo. They would just end up with the same trouble as before.

Why make a hybrid instead of handheld and home console? If they engineer something that can do both, then they can release cheaper handhelds and cheaper consoles down the line for multiple form factors using the hybrid as a base for those people that don't want a hybrid.

Why would they do that? Because it was the easiest solution to go with when you want to converge your software lineup. Why engineer a seperate handheld and console that will probably have say... an ARM CPU/DMP GPU in the handheld and a AMD x86 CPU and GPU in the home console? That just means more expenses for having to do R&D, engineering the design, having to make multiple contracts for internals, having to manufacture 2 completely different devices with nothing in common.

Seriously, who would think to do that, instead of just doing a hybrid first, then make multiple form factors later that are based off the same thing?

 

[Snakeyes]

It's not about chasing power, but reaching a different audience with different needs that won't be interested in the machine they're preparing now. Also, they don't have to necessarily shoot for the highest tflops count. Just put out something that can play their games on any TV without the obvious compromises of mobile chips.

For example, if the 4K TV market explodes in the next two years and they want to reach the audience that wants to play games in 4K on their new 4K TV (something that the hybrid device can't do for obvious reasons), they need a more powerful machine on the market to do that. It's not about competing in specs (which is something they're not interested in, they made it perfectly clear multiple times), but offering a product that could help them expanding their audience.

Exactly. A lot of people here seem to be equating a stationary console with competing with the PSBone ScorNeo and getting all the western third parties, matching them FLOP for FLOP, etc, when that's only one reason why you'd want a dedicated console variant of the hardware.

If Nintendo comes up with a novel control scheme or gimmick that is only suitable for TV play, would you expect them to only sell it as an add-on to this rumored device and go; "Yeah, well before getting to play with our new gimmick, you just need to buy this $200 portable with a dock, then fork over an extra $60-100 for the new controller(s)/holographic projector/AR headset"? No, you'll likely want to offer a different SKU where the cost of the display, battery and other portable components has been put towards including whatever new gimmick they came up with as part of the default package.

The only way I see Nintendo not making other SKUs is if they literally ran out of ideas on how to make a desirable home console without copying what Sony or Microsoft are doing.

 

[Peterc]

You are forgetting it's going to have physical controls on it.

Thin slide-over controls. Like the patent but thin. That way you wouldn't make it much bigger.


I hope it would have 4g simcard slot

 

[Terrorblot]

I'm dying for an announcement. Also I hope the scroll wheels are real because I think that's a fantastic idea.

 

[120v]

...which you're going to need if you want to play it on the go; it seems unlikely you'd be able to fit them all in your pocket, whether detachable or not.

You seem to be under the impression that the system can be played without them when outside; I don't think that's the case. Instead, I'd wage they're detachable primarily for being played at home

it could be touch controls in "portable mode". we don't know

 

[wild wild rice]

I'm dying for an announcement. Also I hope the scroll wheels are real because I think that's a fantastic idea.

Me too, though wouldn't that info have slipped by now?

 

[MuchoMalo]

I'm dying for an announcement. Also I hope the scroll wheels are real because I think that's a fantastic idea.

I get the feeling that they won't happen.

 

[Zoon]

If Nx works without the detachable controllers it means it has 3 batteries. Imagine trying to play and not knowing which of the 3 has emptied. Of course there could be an indication saying which one. I also wonder if the controllers will just use AAA instead of Li-Ion.