SonicXtreme
Member
you realize you have the option to play how you want right? just don't warp. you can still get that exact same gameplay experience by doing this so i don't see why giving people the option is an issue.
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New previews for Dark Souls II
- Thread starter ezekial45
- Start date
you realize you have the option to play how you want right? just don't warp. you can still get that exact same gameplay experience by doing this so i don't see why giving people the option is an issue.
well is half an option because you have to go back to the hub if you want to level up.
The "just don't warp argument" is bullshit. Why would the developers think about all those awesome shortcuts we got in Dark (and even Demon's) Souls if you could warp to every bonfire?
When you're playing Dark Souls for the first time and kick that little ladder near the bonfire in Undead Burg below the Hellkite Dragon, or when you activate the elevator between Undead Parish and Firelink Shrine... that was awesome. And these moments probably won't exist in Dark Souls 2. That elevator wouldn't exist if you could warp freely between Firelink Shrine and Undead Parish (near Andre) so easily form the start.
When you're playing Dark Souls for the first time and kick that little ladder near the bonfire in Undead Burg below the Hellkite Dragon, or when you activate the elevator between Undead Parish and Firelink Shrine... that was awesome. And these moments probably won't exist in Dark Souls 2. That elevator wouldn't exist if you could warp freely between Firelink Shrine and Undead Parish (near Andre) so easily form the start.
Glad someone else recognises this. It's a fundamental part of what made Dark Souls so enjoyable.
abstract alien
Member
You are so right. Those feeling of discovering the links throughout the world were really great.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Heh, cheers for the feedback. We do encourage our writers to write however they want, and given the abundance of other previews out there (including those that came a week earlier thanks to an embargo which apparently didn't include Australia) he probably wanted to do something a bit different.
Yeah, this is what worries me. Theres no reason to put that any shortcuts with the warp system. DS2 probably will be like the 2nd part of DS1, more open and spread out.
They could atleast make that if you abuse warp system, enemies get stronger and you get new harder black phantoms (like the tendencies in Demons I guess, never played it).
You're so right; I was ecstatic when the elevator brought me to Firelink. Felt so rewarding. The first half of Dark Souls was my favorite.
Yep, this right here.
I would be ok with warping if it can only bring you to the hub though. (Like DeS)
The_Hitcher89
Member
Red Liquorice
Member
I still think there will be shortcuts and looping level design even with warping. Can we just trust them a little bit, they did make two of the best games of all time. There'll be time to rip a new asshole after we've seen if they made a complete cock up of it or not, but that's an IF. Until then, benefit of the doubt works for me.
I think everyone here as the benefit of doubt about that argument. People are discussing the little information we get and they'are not saying "game ruined"
semiconscious
Member
agreed. tho it's weird how some of these 'innovations' have the feel of fixing things that weren't really broken...
Funny to read "easy foreigner mode" when in Devil May cry the easy mode for european is the hard mode for japanaise
The_Hitcher89
Member
I like the notion that the PC release has made people aware of the franchise, when Demon's Souls had a massive surge in popularity when it was released in the US, and then again in Europe, and that popularity multiplied on Dark Souls' release iirc
Or that PC is where games go to become super popular and watered down.
TheCongressman1
Member
Absolutely, I think the game is gonna be a ton of fun. I just worry about some details being lost, because they really make the experience so much better.
PSnoVita.
yeah. Also I remember a lot of Mega Drive games being harder here.
Those japanese guys are crazy.
TheCongressman1
Member
I don't think those translations are real, just so you know.
As I said in the post. It's optional. Use the tool if you want or not use it. It is that simple. Those who explore the nooks and crannies of the game will the the most of the game and if you just wanna rush and miss it out that is your problem. Despite having the teleport I dont use it much on the original Dark Souls except for leaving Anor Londo and the DLC area. Im sure there will be shortcuts and other reasons to explore on DS2 and people are getting mad over something they are not forcing you to use.
As terrible an argument as "just don't use fast travel in Skyrim, it's optional." The game will be designed with it in mind.
Red Liquorice
Member
Fair enough, I do agree about the concerns but I think From have considered them too and are trying to please everyone. Hope they can!
I also think as someone said above it might not be every bonfire, if there are more bonfires then that list is going to be huge. I hope it will be like in DS1, important and relevant bonfires only. One per area, covenants, hubs that sort of thing.
Well the thing is I can understand it with Skyrim as it is a big world. Dark Souls 2 apparently is roughly the same size as the world of DS1 then it shouldn't be a big problem.
EvilLore nailed the point. Like the Microtransaction it difficult to not use it when the game is designed in that way.
I repeat, how the system was designed in Dark Souls was almost perfect because was a good compromise of not let you go everywhere and give you the possibility to skip some area.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
No, it's not that simple. I wish people would go to this argument less because half the time it's a poor one.
Basically, try playing the last half of Dark Souls without warping. You'll do more backtracking than you ever dreamed of doing during the first half. The game will definitely be designed with it in mind. It's not as if simply not using bonfire warps is going to magically make it the same as playing the first half of Dark Souls without warping.
This would've been cool (I really hope the game will surprise us with things like that) because from what we know thus far there isn't a benefit in not warping between bonfires...especially now that the enemies have limited spawns.
BTW I totally agree that warping from the start is definitely a concern regarding level design quality.
... Some of these comments made me really sad.
Don't get me wrong I don't like the idea of there being warping on DS2 from the start but I simply adapt myself to the situation. If I dont need to use the warps I wont use them unless necessary. If the world design in DS2 is created well you shouldnt have too much problem to work your way around it except a few areas were the warping shall be unavoidable. For example Nito, Bed of Chaos, DLC area to return to Lordran it was necessary but the other areas are still manageable and really not that hard to do. Then again we are complaining without having played the game to know how bad it is as some are thinking about it or not.
I'm inclined to think that's the case. Every single bonfire would create UI problems, as you mentioned number one. And two it would completely eliminate and real back tracking or need for the connected level design Dark Souls did so well.
We know they're bringing more design choices from Demon's Souls into Dark Souls II; Emerald Herald as a Maiden in Black character, etc. Warping to the main bonfire in an area would it with that. Instead on clicking on the painting in the nexus, you select the area from the bonfire in the hub.
Deified Data
Banned
Well, what you say should be true in theory. You should be able to use warping or not to your heart's content. That said, design choices aren't made in a vacuum. One design choice may inform another, and before long you'll have a game that revolves around that design.
Consider the first half of Dark Souls, pre-Lord Vessel. Densely interlinked and a pleasure to traverse. Shortcuts out the ass. Then consider the second half, post-Lord Vessel. You can warp now so there's less interlinking, less shortcuts, the worlds you visit are disparate and seemingly have little to do with one another. Dark Souls as a whole is strong but I don't know anyone who thinks the second half of the game (culminating in the O&S boss fight) is stronger than the first, and part of that may have to do with warping being an available (and encouraged) means of travel.
So I agree that in a perfectly well-designed game your choice to warp or not shouldn't make that big a difference. Let's just hope Dark Souls II wasn't designed with warping in mind as your primary means of transport. We'll just have to play it and see, but I still don't think the warping criticism is invalid.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Heh, funny, because I'm actually OK with warping being there from the beginning. It just feels like "It's optional and you don't have to use it" isn't a great argument half of the time, and it feels like too many just throw it out as a lazy way of dismissing viewpoints that they don't agree with
When I first hard about it, I didn't like it either, but the more I heard about the game and the more I thought about it, the more I was comfortable with it. It being there from the beginning might be more of a necessary reaction to the more open-from-the-beginning nature of the game than a thoughtless "Hey let's put this shit in from the start" thing.
Or it could legitimately take away from some of what made the original Dark Souls great to me. We'll see, but I'm not too worried about it at this point.
I have done shieldless before and worked fine as I leveled up enough to work for my standards.
Now one think I was thinking about the respawn system...
I think people exploiting the suicidal guys in the forrest of DS1 made From Software change it because of it but if you work around it seems you can bring them back so we'll see how that works out.
Deified Data
Banned
Sounds like a typical Dark Souls discussion on GAF, to be fair. It only sounds worse because it's tinged with nationalism.
I have done shieldless before and worked fine as I leveled up enough to work for my standards.
Now one think I was thinking about the respawn system...
I think people exploiting the suicidal guys in the forrest of DS1 made From Software change it because of it but if you work around it seems you can bring them back so we'll see how that works out.
I doubt that this area wasn't intended to be that way...it's clear that it was an area for farming souls.
Some whining from me here, but after reading these previews it seems to me that they are making the game too hard and frustrating. It seems every new detail they are incorporating is there just to make it a more frustrating experience.
Having limited playtime due to family, kids and work, I really need something here to make it a tollerable experience, I do not shy from difficult games, but when every "helping" feature from Dark Souls 1 is removed, I can't see what ways up for that in this game.
As I have said before: It is not the difficulty that makes the prequels one of the best games of the gen, it is the lore, the story, the weapons, the fighting combined with a difficulty which makes you appreciate everything.
It is harder to level up
Dieing makes your health 50% and worse if you die a lot
Enemies can only be killed 15 times (yes there is some way to make them spawn again)
Anyone can be invaded
Backstabbing is much harder
And now there is a "special" monster showing up whenever it feels like it
Dieing makes your health 50% and worse if you die a lot
Enemies can only be killed 15 times (yes there is some way to make them spawn again)
Anyone can be invaded
Backstabbing is much harder
And now there is a "special" monster showing up whenever it feels like it
Having limited playtime due to family, kids and work, I really need something here to make it a tollerable experience, I do not shy from difficult games, but when every "helping" feature from Dark Souls 1 is removed, I can't see what ways up for that in this game.
As I have said before: It is not the difficulty that makes the prequels one of the best games of the gen, it is the lore, the story, the weapons, the fighting combined with a difficulty which makes you appreciate everything.
Care to explain why?
every time you die you lose 10%, so you need to die 5 times
only certain enemy but we'll see when the game come out
the fact than you cannot be invaded in the first one when you are hollow was a sort of mistake, confirmed in a interview.
Plus in Dark Souls 2 they have improved the invasion system and you can summon help with the way of blue.
can you link me where do you've read that?
We dont know nothing about that, let's see when the game come out how it work
From what I've read in other people's comments, there are more folks worrying about all kinds of different things (like warping and co-op) making the game more easy, so I don't think you need to worry. I don't think either side needs to worry.
Let's talk strategy instead. Or whatevers. I feel like talking about it but what's the point a month before release, eh??
Almost all of your points are wrong in some way or another. Not to mention everyone in this thread is worrying about the game becoming too simplified and you're talking about it sounding too frustrating. I guess it's impossible to please everyone.
You can warp from the beginning, respec, there are more frequent bonfires, consumable healing items and your point no. 3 (
only certain enemies, not all of them
Leveling up is as 'difficult' as it was in Demon's Souls and the health system is more forgiving than DeS. They've added more helpful features, especially if you have a limited playtime. Now you can make it to the next bonfire quicker than you did in the first game. As for invasions, there are ways to prevent that and if it comes down to it, you can always play offline.
LegendofLex
Member
Didn't you read that the guy has a kid? "Harder to level up" = You have to waste extra time to do it.
This guy is looking for excuses to play this game. He doesn't need to have to work harder to justify the time he spends on it.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
You're no longer invulnerable during special animations like backstabbing or opening doors and chest so it becomes harder to effectively use it as crowd control.
No wait, really some people use backstabbing or opening doors for some sort of crowd control?
Because it's the first time I hear this.
I have no idea why fixing a game mechanic is seen as a bad thing.