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[Huge Succeeded]

I think Morpheus going 120hz would really make that difficult now. You could lock something to 60fps, but it's not going to have any reprojection on PC to get it to 120fps. So you either do 60fps and it would be kinda lousy, or you do the full 120fps, which.........well, it's 120fps. Good luck with that.

Don't see it happening.

i dunno, part of the reason im excited for vr is to play last gen's games again using it. games like dishonored and bioshock, you'd be able to hit 120fps on a dang texas instruments calculator, right? if morpheus ever recieves support for pc, official or otherwise, i know exactly what i'm gonna do with it

 

[backbreaker65]

Unless Sony discovered some new way to demo VR that no longer makes it boring for the audience, spending a sizeable chunk of the conference on Morpheus would be a mistake from a viewer point of view

So were you bored, when they played C.O.D. or ModWarfare with a regular controller? Becuase you know what, you were just a spectator, the same way you will be with VR.

 

[Peltz]

I get condescending because people hand wave over real world technical limitations of these devices like these limits are nothing, when I can give hard numbers to back what I say. Let me give an actual, in the real world example of how limiting VR can be - the VR application we are making right now for gear VR - we are using a note 4 currently. In stress tests, outside of a VR application, we were able to push about 500k polygons in about 400 draw calls a second at an acceptable frame rate. Trying to stress test inside of VR, however? For one, we had to eliminate environmental shadowing and reflections entirely, because those post effects were too latent. All of our texture sizes needed to be extremely reduced - we wound up using 128 x 128 8-bit textures. We had to constantly micromanage unity's garbage collector just to get the thing to run without running out of memory.

In the end, how much did we have to work with? We had about 20k polygons a second and about 40 draw calls to work with.

Extrapolate that performance difference to other hardware, because it's applicable. Virtual reality isn't a simple task to achieve at all, it's not merely "dialing things down," it's not something trivial to pull off. Every demo sony has shown off has been extremely well designed to hide all the very real, very obvious short comings. This isn't simply the PS4, either, it affects all VR devices. A Vive headset on a titan X SLI setup isn't going to look like modern-gen gaming. I see people left and right saying "I'll be fine with PS4 games running at PS3 specs." What does that even mean? There are numerous things the PS3 did which will not be feasible in VR without a massive increase in power behind the hardware that the PS4 has. They point to things like the shark demo:

And you look at it and start asking "what exactly is going on in this scene"? There is nearly no lighting, there is maybe 10k polygons going on screen at once. The entire thing takes place in a blue foggy void. So people push the luge demo - a demo which is built in a world where they can very aggressively cull everything around you to make it run faster because it goes down linear paths. No real lighting, no advanced shader calls. It's all primitive stuff.

What's left, people ask. Well, stuff like Luckey's Tale? The Mario 64-esq platformer for the rift? I don't expect the PS4 to be able to pull it off, for all the reasons I put forth above. I don't doubt there will eventually be a PS4 VR platformer, probably from MM, but it won't be anything like Mario 64. Anything with a true sense of freedom - a complex world to interact with more than a room at a time - these kind of experiences will not be possible. And it's not just sour grapes.

I'll take it back even further - Half Life 2 VR? The game we work on? It stresses my PC like hell. Our lead modeler, Jazz, is constantly redesigning things like the gun models to remove additional polygons to get it running acceptably. This is a game from 11 years ago, and it can barely run in VR with a ton of reworking. VR is so hard to work with that people honestly would be surprised what little power you actually have left over once you begin designing your game.

But let's keep going. So with the limited amount of calls I'm making, just how much script execution time do I have? VR development feels almost like retro console development in that you must carefully manage your remaining execution time down to the milisecond in order to keep things running at an acceptable framerate. With everything I said I did to reduce complexity, I still only had about 1.5 ms of script execution time to work with. Thats 1.5 ms to do everything I could possibly need to do to actually run my game. All my AI pathfinding execution, all my hardware polling. Things like audio mixing, logic updates... everything in 1.5 ms of execution time.

Again, this is extremely limiting.

And before people jump in with "but but but optimization!" This is already AFTER batching had been done, to a ridiculous level. This was AFTER we were already using multithreaded rendering. This was AFTER we were already disabling android performance throttling. In other words, we were already optimizing.

Limitations breed creativity. I'm down for simple little games for the first gen of VR. Something like Wii Sports would be enough for me to buy Morpheus.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Hey Krejlooc just because you don't know how to make something work doesn't mean that someone smarter/better skilled can't.

i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you don't know anything about what it means to be skilled in that particular arena of expertise so why do you think it's even your place to be saying that shit? might as well leave it to dudes like theguardian who seem like they're actually in the know, because when you do it, it's a shitpost.

 

[Krisprolls]

A mobile device, although being a fixed spec is not a good example of how a console works. Both in terms of priorities when the hardware was developed but also in terms of software.



Unity is pretty crap performance wise. That's a fact. I guess I'm spoiled from not having to work with an off the shelf engine.



You talk like you know what's behind the demo, which you don't. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but trust me when I say I know it better than you do.

So basically Krej is wrong about the shark demo ? Do you work for Sony ?

 

[freeofgreed]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Hopefully it is minimal at the actual conference.

Yup. I don't give a shit about VR. To me it's no different than the motion controls or 3D gimmicks we got last gen. VR is the future but not the present.

 

[mrklaw]

If Sony are launching in spring, then this E3 needs to be the one where they talk about timing, demo a few bits of software - basically sell it to us properly. That will take time, like when they introduce any new hardware. How many actual live demos they show is debatable, but it can easily take up a 15-20 minute slot in the conference just to cover off the basics.

Wonder if we'll get a price?

 

[Peltz]

Hey Krejlooc just because you don't know how to make something work doesn't mean that someone smarter/better skilled can't.

It would be great if you backed this up with some sort of credentials or evidence.

 

[viveks86]

Just a reminder, we have a dedicated thread for tech discussion now

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Yup. I don't give a shit about VR. To me it's no different than the motion controls or 3D gimmicks we got last year. VR is the future but not the present.

i mean, i agree with that vr is the future and not the present, even though i'm hella excited for it. but i really wish people would stop associating vr with 3d even when using qualifiers like 'to me' or 'personally'.

this is kinda a general response to the comparisons made in this thread as opposed to you directly, but in a nutshell, it shouldn't be hard to figure out the real reasons why people didn't adopt 3d en masse - not just because glasses, not just because of the expense, but because after factoring those two things in, the enhancement to your viewing experience is a slight novelty at best, even with media designed around it. clearly faked and often inconsistent depth, on an unmoving box of a screen. vr is orders of magnitudes beyond that slight novelty because it envelops your senses and has the potential to give you a true feeling of presence in another world, which can enable all sorts of new media or twists on old kinds. it's not quite as sketchy a value proposition as 3d was. but i totally understand disinterest and a preference for the wait and see approach.

 

[mrklaw]

These arguments remind me of when people were saying Mario Galaxy was proof that the Wii could keep pace with the 360 and PS3 early on. People would point out that the actual world geometry was kept to a minimum by using small floating planetoids which were culled away from the screen (since you had no real control of the camera) and by loading times masked by shooting through the stars. Everything about the setting and environment was built to work in a specific way to get it running on the hardware in the first place.

Game development is a lot of give and take. I see Sony's demos as being very well designed to hide these limitations, but, being familiar with what you can do with a some crazy hardware raw, and then seeing what you can do once it's hamstrung by VR, there are obvious design limitations. Very obvious design limitations. While many will say the PS4 and Xbox One are "weak PCs" the truth is they can pretty much do anything a developer would want to do. Your design is not limited by either console. If you need to do more you do things to reduce drawtime and complexity and you wind up with enough to realistically do anything your heart desires. This isn't true when you're working with VR. VR is going to take us back to a time when hardware dictates what developers can and cannot do. And it'll be that way for a good while.

But like you said in an earlier post, that goes for PC too. Even high end rigs are not going to play VR games that look like high end 2D monitor games. Everyone will need to learn how to develop efficiently for VR.

PS4 games now are like the PC version with details turned down. So that should still be valid with VR too?

 

[Seanspeed]

i dunno, part of the reason im excited for vr is to play last gen's games again using it. games like dishonored and bioshock, you'd be able to hit 120fps on a dang texas instruments calculator, right? if morpheus ever recieves support for pc, official or otherwise, i know exactly what i'm gonna do with it

No, it's not that simple. You're still talking about needing to run them in stereoscopic 3D, at about 2560x1440 plus a rock solid 120fps and a FOV over 100 degrees.

Also, you really don't wanna go playing old, existing games that aren't built for VR. It might be ok for the novelty of it in certain instances, but it's probably not anything you'll want to spend a substantial amount of time doing. If you can do it without throwing up, the next big problem is that most games just aren't playable in VR due to things like HUD's, menus, text, etc.

There's other reasons to dismiss the idea of Morpheus on PC, like having no real financial reason for making the effort, too.

 

[Leko04]

i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you don't know anything about what it means to be skilled in that particular arena of expertise so why do you think it's even your place to be saying that shit? might as well leave it to dudes like theguardian who seem like they're actually in the know, because when you do it, it's a shitpost.

So we are shitpost buddies. jee!

There is always someone smarter than you.
Krejlooc's posts came off as Krejlooc being full of Krejlooc. Maybe Krejlooc need reality check? Lol. Time will tell.
I don't expect much from vr games. Heist demo looked much better than what I expected.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Lol, subtle

 

[mrklaw]

This is the first time I'm reading about VR having such a huge overhead. Holy shit. I'm not even sure how to react.

You react by going fuck, imagine that shark coming at me!'

The upside of VR is that it doesn't nexessarily need the complexity of modern graphics to pull off presence.

Let's just wait and see shall we? Ultimately what Kreijlooc is talking about is smoke and mirrors, and when it comes down to it, that's what all games are anyway

 

[Huge Succeeded]

No, it's not that simple. You're still talking about needing to run them in stereoscopic 3D, at about 2560x1440 plus a rock solid 120fps and a FOV over 100 degrees.

Also, you really don't wanna go playing old, existing games that aren't built for VR. It might be ok for the novelty of it in certain instances, but it's probably not anything you'll want to spend a substantial amount of time doing. If you can do it without throwing up, the next big problem is that most games just aren't playable in VR due to things like HUD's, menus, text, etc.

well, i really ought to have considered problems with traditional static menus and hud elements that are displayed at the depth of the screen surface, that could be an issue. but i'd imagine the main issue besides that that would stem from playing an old game like dishonored and bioshock, would be clipping, right? (i'd imagine fast movement and screen shaking/head bobbing could cause issues to those with weak stomachs, and there are some older graphical effects that break in a vr or 3d environment, those like hud issues being the type of thing i'm sure mods to some games could mitigate.) i mean my brother has a high end computer, 980 with an i7, and he runs dishonored at 4k at well over a hundred fps.
at any rate, i'm sure there will be a fair number of games from last generation that will see a second life thanks to vr, it'll just take a bit of work from modding communities first, but i'm sure the interest will be there.

So we are shitpost buddies. jee!

There is always someone smarter than you.
Krejlooc's posts came off as Krejlooc being full of Krejlooc. Maybe Krejlooc need reality check? Lol. Time will tell.
I don't expect much from vr games. Heist demo looked much better than what I expected.

well i can't exactly knock you for shitposting when my response to you in that other thread was a shitpost, so yeah, ya got me.
but i don't see how it's entirely relevant to point out that someone 'might' be more informed than the person you're disagreeing with. if your argument is that someone else might be smart enough to field a dissenting argument then you have no argument to begin with.

 

[mrklaw]

rolling asynchronous time warp display, holy shit

Sounds amazing, but think back to some of the demo scene stuff on C64 and Amiga. Chasing the raster and changing the copper list in realtime to get amazing effects? Same kind of thing 20-25 years ago.

 

[?oe?oe]

Low on first party titles, high on tech demos!

 

[EVIL]

snip

Exactly, Its not a strange thing that oculus is saying GTX 980 is a minimum. every developer I know who is doing serious VR stuff is aiming for a GTX 980 as a minimum and 16 gb of ram.

 

[Krisprolls]

Exactly, Its not a strange thing that oculus is saying GTX 980 is a minimum. every developer I know who is doing serious VR stuff is aiming for a GTX 980 as a minimum and 16 gb of ram.

It doesn't make sense, we already have great Morpheus demos like the Heist. You don't need a 980 at all. What matters is immersion / presence / scale, not the number of light sources or the antialiasing.

 

[Wildstar75]

Can't wait to see more from eve Valkyrie running on ps4!

 

[Mihos]

i dunno, part of the reason im excited for vr is to play last gen's games again using it. games like dishonored and bioshock, you'd be able to hit 120fps on a dang texas instruments calculator, right? if morpheus ever recieves support for pc, official or otherwise, i know exactly what i'm gonna do with it

I actually love vr and I am 20 again whenever I play with it, but you kind of need to get past FPS for a while. At least as they are now. There is big and sickening transition when going from looking through a window at a fps, and being in the fps. I think someone will figure it out, but it will have to be from the ground up.

 

[yuraya]

No, it's not that simple. You're still talking about needing to run them in stereoscopic 3D, at about 2560x1440 plus a rock solid 120fps and a FOV over 100 degrees.

Also, you really don't wanna go playing old, existing games that aren't built for VR. It might be ok for the novelty of it in certain instances, but it's probably not anything you'll want to spend a substantial amount of time doing. If you can do it without throwing up, the next big problem is that most games just aren't playable in VR due to things like HUD's, menus, text, etc.

There's other reasons to dismiss the idea of Morpheus on PC, like having no real financial reason for making the effort, too.

I thought the legacy aspect of PC gaming is best thing about VR. The Vive launching with Alien Isolation support on day one was great to hear. That alone is a great reason to pick it up imo. I hope more pc games just patch in compatibility or wtvr.

But yea with consoles the legacy aspect is probably not gonna happen for obvious reasons. I hope it happens a lot with pc otherwise I don't ever see myself bothering with vr. Building new products for vr is nice and all but the greatness in that is probably years away.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Exactly, Its not a strange thing that oculus is saying GTX 980 is a minimum. every developer I know who is doing serious VR stuff is aiming for a GTX 980 as a minimum and 16 gb of ram.

huzzah wuh? Pretty sure they said it was a 970 recommended, unless they changed that recently. I see that as more of a minimum myself considering the mileage I've gotten out of a 970 with a dk2 thus far however.

 

[Neuromancer]

Krejlooc is sometimes like VR Santa Claus, bringing hope and fun and presents. And sometimes he's Krampus, and he terrifies you, and then throws you in a sack to take you to the river for drowning.

Yes and today he's being very Krampus-like.

 

[Leko04]

well i can't exactly knock you for shitposting when my response to you in that other thread was a shitpost, so yeah, ya got me.
but i don't see how it's entirely relevant to point out that someone 'might' be more informed than the person you're disagreeing with. if your argument is that someone else might be smart enough to field a dissenting argument then you have no argument to begin with.

I wasn't arguing really. No-one has much experience with vr yet (I assume, maybe someone has pondered about vr from vitual boy times to this day)
I assume that time will tell what can and can't be done with ps4 and morpheus combo.
I just didn't like Krejlooc's attitude.
But enough of this. I wonder what Sony does with morpheus on wider level. I don't think that games only will cut it.

 

[KyleP29]

I am excited for VR, i really hope these companies are able to do something cool and unique with it.

I dont see a big issue with a lot of the show floor being VR demos as if they stick to their release for it this will be one of the final big pushes to get people trying it and excited for it.

As far as their conference itself goes...i think they need to tread a very fine line. I feel that VR demos are something you have to experience and not really something that's going to impress by watching someone else demo it. Because of that i would hope very little conference time is spent on it, and what time is spent is going over its capabilities, pricing, etc. And then announcing games that will support it.

I think if they go in trying to do a stage demo, it could very likely sink the conference, as it will be very difficult to keep the audience engaged in an event that is best left experiencing for themselves.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I wonder what Sony does with morpheus on wider level. I don't think that games only will cut it.

that's frankly my biggest concern with morpheus, i know that sony will ensure a fair number of games will hit the platform, but VR is much more than just games. i wonder if they're considering engaging in providing live entertainment or virtual 'experiences' like educational or communication tools.

 

[DavidDesu]

that's frankly my biggest concern with morpheus, i know that sony will ensure a fair number of games will hit the platform, but VR is much more than just games. i wonder if they're considering engaging in providing live entertainment or virtual 'experiences' like educational or communication tools.

They are. They've actively talked about these kinds of experiences and I think they realise that those experiences are very likely to be the key to VR taking off as opposed to just games only. Virtual tourism and live sport (Well F1 for me) are a big draw to me as well as slower paced interactive games. Racing games my absolute nirvana in cockpit view in VR!

 

[Ferrio]

Do you guys think the public attendance this year has anything to do with wanting to demo VR to a wider audience?

 

[Sevyne]

Do you guys think the public attendance this year has anything to do with wanting to demo VR to a wider audience?

Possibly. Only one way to make believers out of a skeptical audience. I mean, I don't want their conference to be TOO heavy on Morpheus stuff, but having a large space for it on the show floor makes perfect sense to me.

 

[KillerSloth]

Think about it man. Morpheus in a full fledged XXX game, brothels in the witcher would never be the same. May never complete the game, just hang in the brothel get your freak on.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Watching something like that during a E3 conference would be stupid and boring as hell.

You do realize if they do show a live demo of morpheus you'll be looking at the gameplay on the big screen not at the guy playing it right? (The lights will be dimmed anyway so you will only see they lights on the morpheus helmet)

 

[Jinfash]

Considering my apathy towards VR/Morpheus, I'm personally not happy about this. Even more so when I realize Sony hasn't made a strong push since launch with their first party line-up to justify a switch in focus this early.

For instance, when Sony pushed for 3D and Move for the PS3, two projects I didn't care much for, they did so after relatively satisfying me with their traditional gaming strategy.

So here's what I'm hoping for: traditional first party games still get a strong focus... Or another surprise partnership akin to Bloodborne's. And finally, I'll try to keep an open mind to Morpheus, so I hope the games, features, and pricing (if they're ready to share that) are compelling enough to give it a second thought.

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

There's other reasons to dismiss the idea of Morpheus on PC, like having no real financial reason for making the effort, too.

Theoretically speaking how easy would it be for modders or whatever to make Morpheus work with PC?

 

[viveks86]

You react by going fuck, imagine that shark coming at me!'

The upside of VR is that it doesn't nexessarily need the complexity of modern graphics to pull off presence.

Let's just wait and see shall we? Ultimately what Kreijlooc is talking about is smoke and mirrors, and when it comes down to it, that's what all games are anyway

Sure. Presence can be achieved with Gear VR too. But it does help to understand "at what cost?". Until today I was always of the impression that we are talking overheads of 50-100% with optimizations (conservative). Not >1000%. That's a sledgehammer to my gut. I gotta wince a little before I can even come to terms with it

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Considering my apathy towards VR/Morpheus, I'm personally not happy about this. Even more so when I realize Sony hasn't made a strong push since launch with their first party line-up to justify a switch in focus this early.

For instance, when Sony pushed for 3D and Move for the PS3, two projects I didn't care much for, they did so after relatively satisfying me with their traditional gaming strategy.

So here's what I'm hoping for: traditional first party games still get a strong focus... Or another surprise partnership akin to Bloodborne's. And finally, I'll try to keep an open mind to Morpheus, so I hope the games, features, and pricing (if they're ready to share that) are compelling enough to give it a second thought.

The same studios that make traditional AAA games for Sony are still making AAA games for Sony. The first party stuff seems fine, but a lot of it has been delayed (UC4, R&C, Santa Monica, etc).

Morpheus hasn't changed the equation at all. Resources that used to be devoted to the Move (Zindagi, Studio London, some MM, indies, etc) are simply moving over to Morpheus.

Personally, I'm excited that Morpheus is going to get a big push. It means Sony isn't treating it like an experiment. It has the potential to be the next game-changing device in bringing new audiences to the table like the Wii did.

 

[FleetFeet]

Sure. Presence can be achieved with Gear VR too. But it does help to understand "at what cost?". Until today I was always of the impression that we are talking overheads of 50-100% with optimizations (conservative). Not >1000%. That's a sledgehammer to my gut. I gotta wince a little before I can even come to terms with it

How are you coming to that conclusion exactly?

 

[baxter2231]

Ace combat HD collection with morpheous support please. This would work wonder in that game.

 

[viveks86]

How are you coming to that conclusion exactly?

500K polygons/400 draw calls to 20K polygons/40 draw calls? Crude math, obviously, but that's an INSANE drop.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Are there games, or any content to support this? Why is this exciting?

Maybe it's just me but it seems like Sony has been kind of comfy scaling back support for some of the products they've released.

Edit: Yes, my thread (thanks guys for already linking it)

 

[Crayon]

Sure. Presence can be achieved with Gear VR too. But it does help to understand "at what cost?". Until today I was always of the impression that we are talking overheads of 50-100% with optimizations (conservative). Not >1000%. That's a sledgehammer to my gut. I gotta wince a little before I can even come to terms with it

lol you are crackin me up, chicken little. We have little pictures and some video to go on. The same pictures and video that we had 3 hours ago before that post was made. I was in that thread and I saw your quick reaction and I could tell you were worried.

I was there, he was just explaining that when we jump over to vr hmd's, were going to take some significant steps backwards in some areas because available processing has to be devoted to some other area now. And that we can't just play all our favorite games in vr the way we can just pump up the resolution, or even just upgrade assets. It was a great and illuminating post but you're psychin yourself out a bit.

I think I want morpheus on day one. I have no experience with what I'm going to put on my head that day and I won't really know a damn thing about morpheus, its performance and it's games until that day comes. Until then I just know what I've heard.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Ace combat HD collection with morpheous support please. This would work wonder in that game.

This is what I want so bad, which is why the technical limitation talk is so discouraging. Fighting Yellow Squadron or jousting with Solo Wing would be pretty amazing in VR.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Hopefully it turns out good. Like a good bunch of others, I am not sure about VR just yet.

 

[kyser73]

The best way Sony could demo this on the stage would be a repeat of the Until Dawn demo at PSX where they invited some fun audience participation.

They could easily show off the social aspects by using a game like 'Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes' or a horror-shocks game where the audience get to choose some jump-shock mechanism to scare the pants off the poor bastard on the stage.

 

[FleetFeet]

500K polygons/400 draw calls to 20K polygons/40 draw calls? Crude math, obviously, but that's an INSANE drop.

But those numbers are derived from a build in Unity for Gear VR. You can't honestly expect those numbers to extrapolate across the board into entirely different engines and system architecture. Plus, every game is different, some will obviously be more demanding than others. Essentially we have less than a week to go before E3 and the VR blowout. I could be dead wrong (I'm no dev, so I probably am), but no need to get worried about the future when it will ultimately be revealed within a week... then if it looks bunk, that would be the time to panic lol.

 

[viveks86]

lol you are crackin me up, chicken little. We have little pictures and some video to go on. The same pictures and video that we had 3 hours ago before that post was made. I was in that thread and I saw your quick reaction and I could tell you were worried.

I was there, he was just explaining that when we jump over to vr hmd's, were going to take some significant steps backwards in some areas because available processing has to be devoted to some other area now. And that we can't just play all our favorite games in vr the way we can just pump up the resolution, or even just upgrade assets. It was a great and illuminating post but you're psychin yourself out a bit.

Well... What can I say? I just need to see some more numbers, I guess? Hope the Oculus E3 conference gives me a better idea of what to expect

But those numbers are derived from a build in Unity for Gear VR. You can't honestly expect those numbers to extrapolate across the board into entirely different engines and system architecture. Plus, every game is different, some will obviously be more demanding than others. Essentially we have less than a week to go before E3 and the VR blowout. I could be dead wrong (I'm no dev, so I probably am), but no need to get worried about the future when it will ultimately be revealed within a week... then if it looks bunk, that would be the time to panic lol.

Agreed. I definitely took it harder than the rest of you because that post was unprecedented for me. Which is why I made a thread on it to see what sort of numbers others are seeing. Most responses I've seen seem somewhat reassuring. Like you said, we'll know soon enough

 

[Doug Heffernan]

I agree with Miyamoto on VR. If every thing goes that route I believe I'll be done.

Yup, same here.
I also rejected motion controls which, ironically, Miyamoto tried to force on us all with the Wii.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I agree with Miyamoto on VR. If every thing goes that route I believe I'll be done.

this is probably the silliest and least informed thing people still say about vr lol

'if every game goes vr i'll stop gaming'

i mean does it really need to be explained why that's a ridiculous thing to say?

and what does it mean to agree with miyamoto on vr? i don't remember him ever condemning it, he just said its in contrast to nintendo's focuses with the Wii U.

 

[Crayon]

Well... What can I say? I just need to see some more numbers, I guess? Hope the Oculus E3 conference gives me a better idea of what to expect

No! You need to see for yourself when it hits the streets! Like on a demo unit or something. I could tell you all day what a guitar sounds like but until you hear it for yourself, you'd never really know. We all have very little cumulative experience with the new thing vr. Your previous expectation that it would be really easy to play fully complex games, and your new fear that games will have to be unsatisfactorily simple, are equally unfounded. It's not like you have to buy it to try it.