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Xboxone Resolutiongate (Eurogamer)

C

cilonen

Member
Septimus Prime said:
Well, they did initially try to play to their strengths. It's just that those strengths didn't resonate with gamers, who didn't see any of them as advantages.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly. They've gone about 90 degrees too far in the 180 though. They should have done something along the lines of "all those features you hated have gone, but we've kept in all the awesome media stuff we know you'll love when you get to use it
and no more bundled Kinect, ever, so we're launching at $349
"
 
O

oflaherty01

Member
cilonen said:
There's a thread around here somewhere - it;s an EU vs USA 64 player series of matches. It looked really fun, but it's an old build that had texture issues that should be fixed by launch.
Click to expand...

I was hoping to see the new build with the AO in it. Sad, but oh well. Wish Microsoft would have invested more in what gamers and developers wanted and not so much in the Kinect 2.0. I'm still getting the console for the exclusive games, but now I'm considering getting a PS4 down the line.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
frodoonly720psxulq.gif
 
Z

~ZIO~

Neo Member
I'm not bothered by this.

Although, I am more annoyed Microsoft has seemed to be silent on the issue.

I can deal with these shortcoming so long as a solid experience in a title is delivered. I mean, I still play classic games on my CRT. I have no qualms with these resolutions.

It's just that Microsoft should be doing something to prevent the internet from running wild with all this bad news and overshadow what all is happening with their competition. It's like, "sure, these guys are doing bad, but god lord look at Microsoft".
 
B

bigboss370

Member
Amir0x said:
I understand you're still spinning your wheels trying desperately to find some way to excuse your company of choice's behavior, but literally every single point of yours in this post is nonsense. Every single one. Usually a single point may be wrong, or someone is just misguided here and there. For you? Every single point is absurd.

Where to even fucking begin. Christ. I'll have to number your "points" because they're each more entertaining than the last and I think they all deserve special attention.

1. As has been said, a "smart" company plays to their strengths, not their weaknesses. Sony has won the power war. It's not up for dispute. And they won it at a $100 cheaper price (no one cares about Kinect until they justify it with actual compelling games; quaint conveniences != +$100, and you can control PS4's UI with your voice using the included headset). Every developer who has gone on record has said the PS4 is easier to develop for, has significantly more power, has way more mature tools.

Microsoft's STRENGTHS when they were designing their "all-in-one-entertainment" device was a system designed around multimedia capabilities and Kinect. That they seem so woefully unprepared to even have a compelling argument to support Kinect until next year (first flagship is coming Spring 2014) is a problem that should never have happened. A company in their position would have recognized their core goals, utilized those strengths to put distance between them and the competition and settled on a path that took them away from revealing just how inferior their system tech was. Instead, they attempted to face the problem head on by posting many articles trying to diminish the PS4's power whilst trying to exaggerate the benefits of XBO's. I'll cover this more in another point, since you actually believe Microsoft misled nobody.

2. Technically, if Microsoft would have released a system exactly as powerful as the Wii U it would have been the "most powerful console they have ever made." This is the most ridiculous non-statement ever in history. It says literally less than nothing about the system you're trying to defend. Try harder so I can be better entertained.

3. "Next-gen" does not only mean power. They could market their machine as a true next-gen machine without wading into territory they're only going to lose at (as they have endlessly since they revealed the XBO, whether your desperate fanaticism allows you to admit it or not).

4. So far, if GAF was in charge of their marketing and planning we would have saved them from a.) their embarrassing original XBO vision and the 180s after b.) their attempts to try to enter a PS4 tech war, which has led to yet more embarrassing news for them c.) resolutiongate, since we would have told Microsoft to get out ahead of it ages ago. And before you say 'b-b-but GAF hardcore blah blah fucking blah', please realize that the reason Microsoft changed was because they had abysmal pre-order numbers while Sony's were skyrocketing. Please understand that it remains the case that Sony is dominating in pre-order numbers, launch allotment, consumer interest, online auctions and much more purely BECAUSE of their horrible decisions that much of GAF would have helped them avoid. And don't even get me started in Europe. XBO is getting fucking thrashed in early indications.

But please, go on. Bubbles are cool. Live in your bubble bro.

5. You don't need to be a pixel counter to notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. You need to simply not be blind. That said, the point is not 'pixel counting.' The point is a real world illustration of the massive gulf in power. And, it must be said, the resolution was only part of the differences... in Battlefield 4, plenty of other features are different as well, all of them advantage PS4. So not only is it outputting a massive resolution gap, but it's doing it at a more consistent framerate and with more impressive effects overall. There is absolutely no way to underplay it without being obscene.

6. As has been said a million times, word-of-mouth is the #1 thing that sells people on gaming products. Word-of-mouth always starts within the hardcore gaming fans and spreads out to their family and other casuals. If Hardcore gamers begin to lament at mass that the PS4 gaming experience is simply superior on a technical level, that is going to leak out - even if those people couldn't themselves tell the difference. They will remember that their friends said it was 'worse' for one reason or another, and they will look at the sticker price, and they'll put two and two together. it doesn't take rocket science. Once again, PS4 is absolutely dominating in the word-of-mouth game. That's why it is important for Microsoft to tailor their message so as not to try to deceive or focus on their weaknesses for their primary message deliverers. We are the ones who spread out and inform.

7. I am not important to MS; millions upon millions of gamers, however, are. We spend the most average money on their products, we raise the biggest stink, we are the ones who made them even moderately successful in the first place. Without our blessing, things are simply that much harder for Microsoft. Without our approval, we go out and tell those who aren't tuned in that it's not worth it. Now it's true it's possible to do it without us, but you're increasing the odds of failure exponentially and for no reason. Since they have an alternative message that is viable and plays to their actual strengths.

8. No, they only intentionally tried to deceive hardcore gamers as to what those specs could actually do and what PS4's specs could actually do so that people who are actually ignorant about technology could be fooled into thinking the gap was tiny or insignificant. It was a lie, everyone knows it was a lie, and even Leadbetter has now had to come out and damage control for letting Microsoft's architect folks pretty much post articles filled with FUD. To deny this is simply to deny facts. Up to you.
Click to expand...

Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif
 
N

nib95

Banned
Amir0x said:
I understand you're still spinning your wheels trying desperately to find some way to excuse your company of choice's behavior, but literally every single point of yours in this post is nonsense. Every single one. Usually a single point may be wrong, or someone is just misguided here and there. For you? Every single point is absurd.

Where to even fucking begin. Christ. I'll have to number your "points" because they're each more entertaining than the last and I think they all deserve special attention.

1. As has been said, a "smart" company plays to their strengths, not their weaknesses. Sony has won the power war. It's not up for dispute. And they won it at a $100 cheaper price (no one cares about Kinect until they justify it with actual compelling games; quaint conveniences != +$100, and you can control PS4's UI with your voice using the included headset). Every developer who has gone on record has said the PS4 is easier to develop for, has significantly more power, has way more mature tools.

Microsoft's STRENGTHS when they were designing their "all-in-one-entertainment" device was a system designed around multimedia capabilities and Kinect. That they seem so woefully unprepared to even have a compelling argument to support Kinect until next year (first flagship is coming Spring 2014) is a problem that should never have happened. A company in their position would have recognized their core goals, utilized those strengths to put distance between them and the competition and settled on a path that took them away from revealing just how inferior their system tech was. Instead, they attempted to face the problem head on by posting many articles trying to diminish the PS4's power whilst trying to exaggerate the benefits of XBO's. I'll cover this more in another point, since you actually believe Microsoft misled nobody.

2. Technically, if Microsoft would have released a system exactly as powerful as the Wii U it would have been the "most powerful console they have ever made." This is the most ridiculous non-statement ever in history. It says literally less than nothing about the system you're trying to defend. Try harder so I can be better entertained.

3. "Next-gen" does not only mean power. They could market their machine as a true next-gen machine without wading into territory they're only going to lose at (as they have endlessly since they revealed the XBO, whether your desperate fanaticism allows you to admit it or not).

4. So far, if GAF was in charge of their marketing and planning we would have saved them from a.) their embarrassing original XBO vision and the 180s after b.) their attempts to try to enter a PS4 tech war, which has led to yet more embarrassing news for them c.) resolutiongate, since we would have told Microsoft to get out ahead of it ages ago. And before you say 'b-b-but GAF hardcore blah blah fucking blah', please realize that the reason Microsoft changed was because they had abysmal pre-order numbers while Sony's were skyrocketing. Please understand that it remains the case that Sony is dominating in pre-order numbers, launch allotment, consumer interest, online auctions and much more purely BECAUSE of their horrible decisions that much of GAF would have helped them avoid. And don't even get me started in Europe. XBO is getting fucking thrashed in early indications.

But please, go on. Bubbles are cool. Live in your bubble bro.

5. You don't need to be a pixel counter to notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. You need to simply not be blind. That said, the point is not 'pixel counting.' The point is a real world illustration of the massive gulf in power. And, it must be said, the resolution was only part of the differences... in Battlefield 4, plenty of other features are different as well, all of them advantage PS4. So not only is it outputting a massive resolution gap, but it's doing it at a more consistent framerate and with more impressive effects overall. There is absolutely no way to underplay it without being obscene.

6. As has been said a million times, word-of-mouth is the #1 thing that sells people on gaming products. Word-of-mouth always starts within the hardcore gaming fans and spreads out to their family and other casuals. If Hardcore gamers begin to lament at mass that the PS4 gaming experience is simply superior on a technical level, that is going to leak out - even if those people couldn't themselves tell the difference. They will remember that their friends said it was 'worse' for one reason or another, and they will look at the sticker price, and they'll put two and two together. it doesn't take rocket science. Once again, PS4 is absolutely dominating in the word-of-mouth game. That's why it is important for Microsoft to tailor their message so as not to try to deceive or focus on their weaknesses for their primary message deliverers. We are the ones who spread out and inform.

7. I am not important to MS; millions upon millions of gamers, however, are. We spend the most average money on their products, we raise the biggest stink, we are the ones who made them even moderately successful in the first place. Without our blessing, things are simply that much harder for Microsoft. Without our approval, we go out and tell those who aren't tuned in that it's not worth it. Now it's true it's possible to do it without us, but you're increasing the odds of failure exponentially and for no reason. Since they have an alternative message that is viable and plays to their actual strengths.

8. No, they only intentionally tried to deceive hardcore gamers as to what those specs could actually do and what PS4's specs could actually do so that people who are actually ignorant about technology could be fooled into thinking the gap was tiny or insignificant. It was a lie, everyone knows it was a lie, and even Leadbetter has now had to come out and damage control for letting Microsoft's architect folks pretty much post articles filled with FUD. To deny this is simply to deny facts. Up to you.
Click to expand...

Wow. Ether.
 
W

werks

Banned
jedimike said:
Check out lap times on "the ring" for production cars and you'll see that power alone doesn't get you the fastest lap times.
Click to expand...
You are right, the car with the most horsepower isn't necessarily the fastest car. There are other things to consider when it comes to performance, like transmission, suspension, ease of harnessing the power for real world use, etc. And the analogy also works for consoles, the ps3 in most cases had worse performance for the majority of the generation with a much faster CPU because the Xbox had a better GPU and was easier to use.

The problem with your analogy is that you are trying to act like the ps4 and Xbox one are completely different designs, like say a corvette v a GT-R. They are the exact same base architecture with the PS4 being better and easier to use in every metric (CPU,GPU,bandwidth and ease of use)

A more accurate analogy would be arguing that a 335i will beat a M3 in the ring.

jedimike said:
Yes, but the XB1 has features more important than power. Once again, my original post in this thread was in regards to the media's lack of reporting on "resolutiongate."

E.g. Better online, better OS, more "apps", voice controls, etc. All of the can lend to better performance.
Click to expand...
Now imagine going into a car performance thread and arguing that a 335i has better performance than a M3 because it comes with heated seats and navigation.

The Xbox one might give you the better user experience, but it will not give you better performance.
 
N

nib95

Banned
jedimike said:
Yes, but the XB1 has features more important than power. Once again, my original post in this thread was in regards to the media's lack of reporting on "resolutiongate."

E.g. Better online, better OS, more "apps", voice controls, etc. All of the can lend to better performance.
Click to expand...

According to insiders the PS4's OS and online is working far better than the Xbox Ones at the moment, which is much more bug ridden. Add to that both have voice controls. On the PS4 you don't even need a camera to use them just use the included headset mic.

And I think you'd find hardware performance along with price are two major reasons people invest in a new console. So no, those things are not more important than power. Even according to surveys.
 
V

vcc

Member
nib95 said:
According to insiders the PS4's OS and online is working far better than the Xbox Ones at the moment, which is much more bug ridden. Add to that both have voice controls. On the PS4 you don't even need a camera to use them just use the included headset mic.

And I think you'd find hardware performance along with price are two major reasons people invest in a new console. So no, those things are not more important than power. Even according to surveys.
Click to expand...

Considering they haven't trumpeted doing much work in voice controls, how advance do you think they might be?

I can imagine on and off in english. Maybe game start?
 
S

Skilletor

Member
jedimike said:
Yes, but the XB1 has features more important than power. Once again, my original post in this thread was in regards to the media's lack of reporting on "resolutiongate."

E.g. Better online, better OS, more "apps", voice controls, etc. All of the can lend to better performance.
Click to expand...

I like the PS4 UI better. More apps doesn't matter if I'm not paying for XBL. PS4 has voice control and I don't need to spend 100 dollars more to get it.

Better online? Says who? We'll see that when it comes out.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
~ZIO~ said:
I'm not bothered by this.

Although, I am more annoyed Microsoft has seemed to be silent on the issue.

I can deal with these shortcoming so long as a solid experience in a title is delivered. I mean, I still play classic games on my CRT. I have no qualms with these resolutions.

It's just that Microsoft should be doing something to prevent the internet from running wild with all this bad news and overshadow what all is happening with their competition. It's like, "sure, these guys are doing bad, but god lord look at Microsoft".
Click to expand...

What do you want them to say? They've spent months trying to convince gamers and the media that Sony was essentially lying about the power gap between the consoles and that we'd see once they were released. Well, now we have the first multiplatform games. And they aren't just any games, they're the two biggest multiplatform games at launch for these consoles. And both favor the PS4 in a rather big way. Their arguments against the power gap don't hold any weight anymore.
 
J

jedimike

Member
werks said:
Now imagine going into a car performance thread and arguing that a 335i has better performance than a M3 because it comes with heated seats and navigation.

The Xbox one might give you the better user experience, but it will not give you better performance.
Click to expand...

I get your point. A race car was the analogy I chose to use because it is easy to see the difference between power and performance in that context. The goal of a race car is to have the fastest lap times. If the goal was to have the most comfortable car, then heated seats and navigation are going to be more important.

The goal of a console is to entertain. Certainly power is needed but my joy of gaming is not tied to a games native resolution. In fact, my decision to buy a PS4 or a XB1 has nothing to do with power. I think they are equally powerful enough to provide quality gaming. My decision has come down to how well PS Vita functions with remote play or the quality of Titanfall, a game with tremendous promise.

but GAF being GAF, it is wrapped around the axle on resolution. As if native 1080p is going to deliver a more enjoyable game than upscaled 1080p. I would say that XB1 and PS4 have enough power to deliver quality gaming. I'm interested in all the "heated seats" and "navigation" that adds to my enjoyment and I think that is what the media is trying to deliver to us as well.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
jedimike said:
I get your point. A race car was the analogy I chose to use because it is easy to see the difference between power and performance in that context. The goal of a race car is to have the fastest lap times. If the goal was to have the most comfortable car, then heated seats and navigation are going to be more important.

The goal of a console is to entertain. Certainly power is needed but my joy of gaming is not tied to a games native resolution. In fact, my decision to buy a PS4 or a XB1 has nothing to do with power. I think they are equally powerful enough to provide quality gaming. My decision has come down to how well PS Vita functions with remote play or the quality of Titanfall, a game with tremendous promise.

but GAF being GAF, it is wrapped around the axle on resolution. As if native 1080p is going to deliver a more enjoyable game than upscaled 1080p. I would say that XB1 and PS4 have enough power to deliver quality gaming. I'm interested in all the "heated seats" and "navigation" that adds to my enjoyment and I think that is what the media is trying to deliver to us as well.
Click to expand...

It will for me. Two identical games with the only difference being resolution and I will enjoy the one with the higher resolution every time. Higher resolution increases my enjoyment of a videogame.
 
F

Finalizer

Member
SolidSnakex said:
They've spent months trying to convince gamers and the media that Sony was essentially lying about the power gap between the consoles and that we'd see once they were released..
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I don't recall Sony really playing up the power gulf in itself. They seemed content to just tow the usual "most powerful console ever made" line that pretty much every manufacturer seems obligated to say when they're releasing new hardware, and then left it at that, more content to push their ease-of-development angle more so than sheer horsepower. I don't even recall too many of those stupid gimmicky terms being thrown around by Sony this time around, aside from the goofy "supercharged PC" bit earlier this year. I recall it was more online discussion dwelling on the hardware difference and what could manifest from it, with Sony doing little to contribute to that angle.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
Skilletor said:
It will for me. Two identical games with the only difference being resolution and I will enjoy the one with the higher resolution every time. Higher resolution increases my enjoyment of a videogame.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's one of the main reasons I switched to mostly PC gaming midway through this gen.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
jedimike said:
The goal of a console is to entertain. Certainly power is needed but my joy of gaming is not tied to a games native resolution. In fact, my decision to buy a PS4 or a XB1 has nothing to do with power. I think they are equally powerful enough to provide quality gaming. My decision has come down to how well PS Vita functions with remote play or the quality of Titanfall, a game with tremendous promise.

but GAF being GAF, it is wrapped around the axle on resolution. As if native 1080p is going to deliver a more enjoyable game than upscaled 1080p. I would say that XB1 and PS4 have enough power to deliver quality gaming. I'm interested in all the "heated seats" and "navigation" that adds to my enjoyment and I think that is what the media is trying to deliver to us as well.
Click to expand...

It isn't just about resolution. The PS4 is also providing better performance (as you can see by DF's BF4 comparison), and that's something that absolutely will affect the quality of gaming. People are too hung up on resolution that they're overlooking how unlikely it would be that resolution would be the only advantage for the PS4. If it's powerful enough to run a game in a higher resolution, then it's also quite likely powerful enough to run a game better, period.

Finalizer said:
For what it's worth, I don't recall Sony really playing up the power gulf in itself. They seemed content to just tow the usual "most powerful console ever made" line that pretty much every manufacturer seems obligated to say when they're releasing new hardware, and then left it at that, more content to push their ease-of-development angle more so than sheer horsepower. I don't even recall too many of those stupid gimmicky terms being thrown around by Sony this time around, aside from the goofy "supercharged PC" bit earlier this year. I recall it was more online discussion dwelling on the hardware difference and what could manifest from it, with Sony doing little to contribute to that angle.
Click to expand...

That's somewhat true. Although it was interesting that in Game Informer interview with Mark Cerny he seemed kinda annoyed that Carmack said that consoles were basically the same.
 
J

jedimike

Member
Skilletor said:
It will for me. Two identical games with the only difference being resolution and I will enjoy the one with the higher resolution every time. Higher resolution increases my enjoyment of a videogame.
Click to expand...

And not one time in the history of gaming has the ONLY difference been resolution. Nor will it be in the future.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
Amir0x said:
I understand you're still spinning your wheels trying desperately to find some way to excuse your company of choice's behavior, but literally every single point of yours in this post is nonsense. Every single one. Usually a single point may be wrong, or someone is just misguided here and there. For you? Every single point is absurd.

Where to even fucking begin. Christ. I'll have to number your "points" because they're each more entertaining than the last and I think they all deserve special attention.

1. As has been said, a "smart" company plays to their strengths, not their weaknesses. Sony has won the power war. It's not up for dispute. And they won it at a $100 cheaper price (no one cares about Kinect until they justify it with actual compelling games; quaint conveniences != +$100, and you can control PS4's UI with your voice using the included headset). Every developer who has gone on record has said the PS4 is easier to develop for, has significantly more power, has way more mature tools.

Microsoft's STRENGTHS when they were designing their "all-in-one-entertainment" device was a system designed around multimedia capabilities and Kinect. That they seem so woefully unprepared to even have a compelling argument to support Kinect until next year (first flagship is coming Spring 2014) is a problem that should never have happened. A company in their position would have recognized their core goals, utilized those strengths to put distance between them and the competition and settled on a path that took them away from revealing just how inferior their system tech was. Instead, they attempted to face the problem head on by posting many articles trying to diminish the PS4's power whilst trying to exaggerate the benefits of XBO's. I'll cover this more in another point, since you actually believe Microsoft misled nobody.

2. Technically, if Microsoft would have released a system exactly as powerful as the Wii U it would have been the "most powerful console they have ever made." This is the most ridiculous non-statement ever in history. It says literally less than nothing about the system you're trying to defend. Try harder so I can be better entertained.

3. "Next-gen" does not only mean power. They could market their machine as a true next-gen machine without wading into territory they're only going to lose at (as they have endlessly since they revealed the XBO, whether your desperate fanaticism allows you to admit it or not).

4. So far, if GAF was in charge of their marketing and planning we would have saved them from a.) their embarrassing original XBO vision and the 180s after b.) their attempts to try to enter a PS4 tech war, which has led to yet more embarrassing news for them c.) resolutiongate, since we would have told Microsoft to get out ahead of it ages ago. And before you say 'b-b-but GAF hardcore blah blah fucking blah', please realize that the reason Microsoft changed was because they had abysmal pre-order numbers while Sony's were skyrocketing. Please understand that it remains the case that Sony is dominating in pre-order numbers, launch allotment, consumer interest, online auctions and much more purely BECAUSE of their horrible decisions that much of GAF would have helped them avoid. And don't even get me started in Europe. XBO is getting fucking thrashed in early indications.

But please, go on. Bubbles are cool. Live in your bubble bro.

5. You don't need to be a pixel counter to notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. You need to simply not be blind. That said, the point is not 'pixel counting.' The point is a real world illustration of the massive gulf in power. And, it must be said, the resolution was only part of the differences... in Battlefield 4, plenty of other features are different as well, all of them advantage PS4. So not only is it outputting a massive resolution gap, but it's doing it at a more consistent framerate and with more impressive effects overall. There is absolutely no way to underplay it without being obscene.

6. As has been said a million times, word-of-mouth is the #1 thing that sells people on gaming products. Word-of-mouth always starts within the hardcore gaming fans and spreads out to their family and other casuals. If Hardcore gamers begin to lament at mass that the PS4 gaming experience is simply superior on a technical level, that is going to leak out - even if those people couldn't themselves tell the difference. They will remember that their friends said it was 'worse' for one reason or another, and they will look at the sticker price, and they'll put two and two together. it doesn't take rocket science. Once again, PS4 is absolutely dominating in the word-of-mouth game. That's why it is important for Microsoft to tailor their message so as not to try to deceive or focus on their weaknesses for their primary message deliverers. We are the ones who spread out and inform.

7. I am not important to MS; millions upon millions of gamers, however, are. We spend the most average money on their products, we raise the biggest stink, we are the ones who made them even moderately successful in the first place. Without our blessing, things are simply that much harder for Microsoft. Without our approval, we go out and tell those who aren't tuned in that it's not worth it. Now it's true it's possible to do it without us, but you're increasing the odds of failure exponentially and for no reason. Since they have an alternative message that is viable and plays to their actual strengths.

8. No, they only intentionally tried to deceive hardcore gamers as to what those specs could actually do and what PS4's specs could actually do so that people who are actually ignorant about technology could be fooled into thinking the gap was tiny or insignificant. It was a lie, everyone knows it was a lie, and even Leadbetter has now had to come out and damage control for letting Microsoft's architect folks pretty much post articles filled with FUD. To deny this is simply to deny facts. Up to you.
Click to expand...
I don't know how he did it, but he banned Ebomb with this post.
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
Resolutiongate has only just begun. Those thinking this will blow over need to think again. This story has legs, as they say. I'm guessing we will be talking about resolutions for the next year, at the very least.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I swear, I think Ami has ModBot powers.
 
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