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[vainglorious]

You serious? A person was killed here because Jenner was driving at an unsafe speed.

Well the "unsafe speed" was still below the speed limit. And she applied the break 4 seconds before the onset of the crash. That's why they feel they can't press criminal charges, because they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her conduct was inappropriate.

 

[esms]

Glad she is out of jail. Maybe deserved it but she can do so much more good in the world out of jail so it's best she's out.

 

[Nokagi]

Figures.

 

[Opto]

So hey, legitimate question here.

In an instance where you're talking about a person's activity pre-transition, is it appropriate to use the pre-transition name when talking about the circumstance?

For instance: Bruce Jenner rammed a person's car and caused a fatal collision, but Caitlyn won't be charged as the prosecutors said there's not enough evidence to prosecute her.

Or do you just use the post-transition name/gender forms?

Use the post-transition name/gender forms.

 

[Cagey]

Glad she is out of jail. Maybe deserved it but she can do so much more good in the world out of jail so it's best she's out.

I'm assuming this was sarcasm.

 

[timetokill]

Use their preferred name/pronouns unless the person in question specifically requests you not to.

Use the post-transition name/gender forms.

Okay, thanks

 

[PadWarrior]

Well the "unsafe speed" was still below the speed limit. And she applied the break 4 seconds before the onset of the crash. That's why they feel they can't press criminal charges, because they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her conduct was inappropriate.

Ugh that stinks. An innocent life lost and a grieving family don't get the justice they deserve

 

[turtle553]

Okay, thanks

The name preference is preferable, but not always applicable when citing facts. Wikipedia had a huge discussion on how to reference the winner of the 1976 Olympic Decathlon. Finally setting on the winner as Bruce Jenner (now Caitlyn). Especially considering all sources from the time reference Bruce as the winner.

 

[Rest]

What's unsafe speed? Is that legally enforceable?

Driving a safe speed for the conditions on the road is the law. You can drive faster than the speed limit if you can prove that it was safe for the conditions at the time.

 

[anaron]

fucking gross. Jenner is a piece of shit.

 

[Orca]

Not trying to blame, but never turn your wheel when making a turn until you are going to move. You can't trust the asshole behind you not to push you into incoming traffic. My uncle was in a serious accident (no fatalities) after a small bump pushed him into the next lane.

I still think this should go to trial.

In the video it doesn't appear to me that the person hit had their wheel turned. They were hit more to the right side, which pushes the front to the left. They recovered back to the right, but that just resulted in a head-on.

No braking at all from Jenner...even as they hit the second vehicle. Were they texting or on the phone?

 

[Zoe]

No braking at all from Jenner...even as they hit the second vehicle. Were they texting or on the phone?

There would have been evidence of texting or talking (probably what the prosecution was hoping for).

 

[Simply Sarah]

I'm pretty sure it was rather obvious it was her fault.

She rear ended the car and it moved it the other one into oncoming traffic right?

Oh, she's clearly at fault, but that's not enough to get a conviction. It would need to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she was negligent and that led to the accident. This is where the DA felt they didn't have a case. If she wasn't driving at an unsafe speed then they'd need to prove that she was negligent in applying her breaks. If that could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt then a jury would be unable to convict her.

 

[KHarvey16]

You can drive faster than the speed limit if you can prove that it was safe for the conditions at the time.

Lol, who told you that?

 

[vainglorious]

Ugh that stinks. An innocent life lost and a grieving family don't get the justice they deserve

Well the "unsafe speed" should be enough for a civil suit to stick. Jenner's not completely out of the water yet.

 

[PadWarrior]

Well the "unsafe speed" should be enough for a civil suit to stick. Jenner's not completely out of the water yet.

Ah thanks for that update. I really feel for that family

 

[DrForester]

What's unsafe speed? Is that legally enforceable?

Will, based on the video of the crash my guess would be that while the speed limit might say one thing (lets just say 55 MPH since it looks like a highway), the road looks very congested, making 55 MPH unsafe for the conditions at the time.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

No evidence my ass. Prosecutor is just a coward.

I agree. No balls.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Well the "unsafe speed" was still below the speed limit. And she applied the break 4 seconds before the onset of the crash. That's why they feel they can't press criminal charges, because they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her conduct was inappropriate.

Source? The video looks really bad...

 

[see5harp]

I hope to God that the family is awarded millions in the civil suit.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Ugh that stinks. An innocent life lost and a grieving family don't get the justice they deserve

Well, that really depends on what you assume happened here. If you think that she was driving in an unsafe and negligent manner then yes, you can say this isn't true justice. If you think it was 'just' an accident then this was the right resolution even if some fault can be placed onto Caitlyn.

The name preference is preferable, but not always applicable when citing facts. Wikipedia had a huge discussion on how to reference the winner of the 1976 Olympic Decathlon. Finally setting on the winner as Bruce Jenner (now Caitlyn). Especially considering all sources from the time reference Bruce as the winner.

I'd not use Wikipedia as a guide for determining how to label, well, anything. They have some very idiosyncratic policies in regards to that sort of thing. In this case it's best to use Caitlyn for all periods of her life unless she's said otherwise. Obviously this may well require additional explanation for situations such as the Olympics.

 

[vainglorious]

Source? The video looks really bad...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-charges-declined-caitlyn-jenner-20150930-story.html

The footage is awful, yes. But that's the legal system for you.

 

[Matt]

Driving a safe speed for the conditions on the road is the law. You can drive faster than the speed limit if you can prove that it was safe for the conditions at the time.

That's not correct. It is possible to avoid a speeding conviction if you can prove that following the speed limit would have been unsafe, but not the other way around.

 

[PSqueak]

.... women.

Jenner confirmed for two short girls on a trenchcoat!

Had to look this up, yeah it's a pretty fair assessment of the situtation:

http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/video/upload/t_video/v1443116680/owhphkpsm5eu7662svcj.webm

Damn, that design is pretty tasteless, i guess south park is back at shitting on trans people, one thing is to call her out for the issue at hand, but it was completely unnecesary and uncalled for to portray her like some sort of botched plastic surgery job.

 

[Frog-fu]

Caitlyn Jenner is like an embodiment of white privilege.

 

[Flavius]

Eeesh. I hope all of you up in arms over this never find yourself in a predicament where you fuck up and someone loses their life over it. Of course it's absolutely terrible that someone lost their life here and I can only imagine how devastated her family and friends are. But to demean and belittle a person, anyone, because of a mistake with consequences everyone with a sane mind understands absolutely were not intended?

Speaks more to all of you than her.

The reality is celebrities are generally treated more harshly when it comes to legal issues than the general public, not less. If Caitlin Jenner hadn't been driving, I seriously doubt charges would have ever been brought in the first instance.

It's a horrible situation for all parties involved. The difference, of course, is that one of those parties paid the ultimate price, while another lives knowing that their actions resulted in someone else's death.

But hey, who gives a shit, right? Fuck her.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I don't think anyone said that at all. But most people still get a punishment for killing someone, even if it's by accident.

In vehicular cases, I've heard more often then not it will probably not be prosecuted unless there was alcohol involved or (by the legal definition) reckless driving.

The ol' 'if you want to kill somebody, hit them with a car' thing.

Just being at fault in a accident where somebody dies will generally not get you charged with vehicular manslaughter.

 

[PSqueak]

Caitlyn Jenner is like an embodiment of white privilege.

I dunno, there is still that one case of the rich kid that got out of a similar situations on the grounds of "he's so rich and lived such a privileged life that he never learned there are consequences to his actions and thus didn't understand what he was doing was wrong" or something like that, i believe there was a thread and everything.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I dunno, there is still that one case of the rich kid that got out of a similar situations on the grounds of "he's so rich and lived such a privileged life that he never learned there are consequences to his actions and thus didn't understand what he was doing was wrong" or something like that, i believe there was a thread and everything.

FWIW, that wasn't a similar situation, the 'affluenza' kid was driving drunk at the time. Also, he actually was charged and convicted. The judge was the failing point there at sentencing.

 

[Frog-fu]

I dunno, there is still that one case of the rich kid that got out of a similar situations on the grounds of "he's so rich and lived such a privileged life that he never learned there are consequences to his actions and thus didn't understand what he was doing was wrong" or something like that, i believe there was a thread and everything.

The affluenza kid is the ultimate embodiment.

The same judge threw the book at a 15 year old black kid that committed a similar crime.

 

[Slayven]

Damn shame, but expect.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Being rich prevails in justice again! Ladies and gentlemen, the system works.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Being rich prevails in justice again! Ladies and gentlemen, the system works.

Wealth had nothing to do with this. They're just trying to avoid the backlash and claims of bigotry.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Rich people don't go to jail I guess

 

[Opto]

Wealth had nothing to do with this. They're just trying to avoid the backlash and claims of bigotry.

Now that's some bullshit.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Wealth had nothing to do with this. They're just trying to avoid the backlash and claims of bigotry.

Pardon my chuckles there sir. But that is a crock of bull hickey.

 

[LCGeek]

Might want to check my posts, I haven't. Kind of don't talk about her much at all (this is partly because most of the conversations have occurred while I was banned, mind) but I'm an egotistical asshole who feels the need to chime in when someone's assigning a motive I find disgusting to an opinion that I hold.

Wasn't specifically about you, you even heard me going after the criticism of her in general and the constant talk about her appearance as if that matters on the subject of vehicular homicide.

Go ahead and find the motive disgusting the webm link proves my point in spades or the posts that keep referring to it.

For the record I think she should be charged if there was wrong doing and at the very least in a civil suit should have to pay up.

 

[ScottSullivan]

The affluenza kid is the ultimate embodiment.

The same judge threw the book at a 15 year old black kid that committed a similar crime.

Wait wtf, i remember that story, but the judge actually let the kid off?!?!

 

[Sayad]

Not trying to blame, but never turn your wheel when making a turn until you are going to move. You can't trust the asshole behind you not to push you into incoming traffic. My uncle was in a serious accident (no fatalities) after a small bump pushed him into the next lane.

I still think this should go to trial.

Don't think that's what happened here, but either way, your wheel don't have to be turned for you to get pushed to the side when someone hit you from behind.

 

[Woody Invincible]

Eeesh. I hope all of you up in arms over this never find yourself in a predicament where you fuck up and someone loses their life over it. Of course it's absolutely terrible that someone lost their life here and I can only imagine how devastated her family and friends are. But to demean and belittle a person, anyone, because of a mistake with consequences everyone with a sane mind understands absolutely were not intended?

Speaks more to all of you than her.

The reality is celebrities are generally treated more harshly when it comes to legal issues than the general public, not less. If Caitlin Jenner hadn't been driving, I seriously doubt charges would have ever been brought in the first instance.

It's a horrible situation for all parties involved. The difference, of course, is that one of those parties paid the ultimate price, while another lives knowing that their actions resulted in someone else's death.

But hey, who gives a shit, right? Fuck her.

That's right. Fuck her.

 

[KDR_11k]

How can the govt of LA get away with this blatant corruption?

 

[Frog-fu]

Wait wtf, i remember that story, but the judge actually let the kid off?!?!

Yup. American justice is a joke. A cruel, racist and unfunny joke.

 

[DarkKyo]

Probably already brought up but can you imagine the outcome if the other woman was responsible for Jenner's death? She would have been charged the day after.

 

[Matt]

I really think people need to step back from their knee-jerk reactions to this. It's highly unlikely that anyone would have been charged in this situation.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I'll say again, just because she's a rich asshole that was at fault here, which is pretty clear from the evidence, doesn't mean she's a rich asshole that actually committed a crime here and could be convicted of it, which the DA felt they do because there wasn't any strong enough evidence that she had acted negligently. This really doesn't seem like it's about Jenner as much as this just isn't the kind of situation that normally results in criminal charges.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I hope all of you up in arms over this never find yourself in a predicament where you fuck up and someone loses their life over it.

This is a funny sentence. Are there people you would hope this happens to?

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Pardon my chuckles there sir. But that is a crock of bull hickey.

You honestly don't think her being the face of the trans acceptance movement has anything to do with their decision?

 

[DarkKyo]

You honestly don't think her being the face of the trans acceptance movement has anything to do with their decision?

It's LA. Probably.

 

[Spinifex]

You honestly don't think her being the face of the trans acceptance movement has anything to do with their decision?

Because trans people in general are well known for eluding justice and getting off lightly.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I really think people need to step back from their knee-jerk reactions to this. It's highly unlikely that anyone would have been charged in this situation.

Yep.