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[Valhelm]

NK won't attack the US.

Trump is unpredictable.

Western libs make the mistake time and time again of perceiving our enemies (North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and Palestine) to be aggressive forces whose policies destabilize the world.

Compare their track records to the history of America, Japan, Israel, or Saudi Arabia and this narrative totally falls apart.

 

[BocoDragon]

Yeah those "little people" who actually are concerned about nuclear proliferation, especially with people like Trump and Kim Jong Un in power, lmao idiots!!

Concern and interest in the subject is one thing. The panic people have always been in la-la land.

 

[Fox Mulder]

.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

i was just talking to a coworker who was all over the place reading some of this stuff the other day and halfway through the conversation I had to stop and re-direct my efforts cause dude was legit surprised that China was the acting Parent in this situation as it comes to NK.

It's so strange to actually feel comforted by some state news/opinions coming out of China. Like at least there is a big bouncer in the middle of these two idiots that is strong enough to assert itself and actually has a level head. You know.. not wanting two fucktards to start a war or anything.

Our leadership is such a bloody embarrassment these days.

 

[Living the Dream]

Another nation with nuclear weapons then, and one of the shittiest options for nations on Earth to obtain them this time.

Hurray.

Why is it okay for country A to have nukes while country B can't? Who are we to say who can or can't?

I'd rather nobody have any though.

 

[TrounceX]

Sounds fair enough really.

Pretty much.

If they say they are strictly neutral regardless of who goes in first, then they stand the risk of president dumbass launching a first strike. At this point you have to play the role of deterrer for NK and the US.

I understand that this was always their policy, but maybe if the US was more stable they would be willing to change their stance. It would be great if China declared themselves completely neutral, or ideally put some pressure on NK's regime. The fact that China has a role in enabling a brutal dictatorship is some bullshit.

 

[metalslimer]

Watching how Trump has handled his first actual crisis has been more horrifying than the actual situation. We are so fucked if there is ever an attack on our soil

 

[Lonewulfeus]

If China really wants to maintain the status quo and avoid war, they'd go in and assassinate Un and install a new leader aligned with China. Slowly bring North Korea into the modern world and end the majority of the suffering of Nks people. They get to keep their buffer state and we don't need to get on NK for threats and bluster.

It's hard work though so doubt China does anything to actually help the situation.

 

[Bobnob]

It's good they're reinforcing this. Won't stop NK nuke development for sure but should push the Doomsday Clock a few minutes back.

You mean kick the can down the road again.I don't know how anybody could think this is a positive outcome, i mean kim killed is own brother ffs. And im not sure the "Doomsday"clock would go back a few minutes?

i cant see NK being allowed to bully/bribe the US forever and i dont see em giving up on getting nukes.

 

[TAJ]

I've said several times that this is the stance China would take.
An attack or counterattack by the US would be really bad for our allies in the region, though.

 

[SliceSabre]

Why is it okay for country A to have nukes while country B can't? Who are we to say who can or can't?

Because if country A has nukes we don't get to bully them as much.

Nukes are a very good way of ensuring you don't get invaded by the US or at least making the US think twice.

 

[ponpo]

Why is it okay for country A to have nukes while country B can't? Who are we to say who can or can't?

Who is "we" first of all. Second, more countries having them is objectively a bad thing, so complaining both about existing countries increasing their stockpiles and nations developing them for the first time is a valid complaint.

Suggesting "we" don't have the right to at least complain about nuclear proliferation because of "fairness" is an awful argument.

 

[BocoDragon]

i was just talking to a coworker who was all over the place reading some of this stuff the other day and halfway through the conversation I had to stop and re-direct my efforts cause dude was legit surprised that China was the acting Parent in this situation as it comes to NK.

It's so strange to actually feel comforted by some state news/opinions coming out of China. Like at least there is a big bouncer in the middle of these two idiots that is strong enough to assert itself and actually has a level head. You know.. not wanting two fucktards to start a war or anything.

Our leadership is such a bloody embarrassment these days.

Did you explain that NK only exists because of massive Chinese support in the Korean War?

If you look at the history, you'd think just the opposite: That China would always have NK's back.

That they are even distancing themselves from NK at all in the last few years is the real novelty.

 

[TAJ]

NK has been annoying the shit out of them lately.

 

[zeemumu]

Upping the stakes of this international game of "swing first"

 

[Jeff6851]

Western libs make the mistake time and time again of perceiving our enemies (North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and Palestine) to be aggressive forces whose policies destabilize the world.

Compare their track records to the history of America, Japan, Israel, or Saudi Arabia and this narrative totally falls apart.

They also love to portray loved foreign leaders as brutal dictators and support is only being shown because it's forced. They talk about how these "repressive regimes" control their media as if western media isn't just imperial propaganda.

Also, they love listening to the bourgeois who fled those countries because they're sorry they lost their slaves.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Why is it okay for country A to have nukes while country B can't? Who are we to say who can or can't?

I'd rather nobody have any though.

Typically it doesn't matter really, however in the case of North Korea(among others) you really don't want these "fragile" governments with nukes because

1. the government falls apart, materials, weapons, data, etc go to anyone.
or
2. the collapsing government could potentially use those weapons to try holding on to its power.

Honestly, the more nukes out there and countries with them the higher the chance something happens with one eventually.

 

[Bobnob]

NK to sell nukes to buy food is the real worry.

 

[Bobnob]

They also love to portray loved foreign leaders as brutal dictators and support is only being shown because it's forced. They talk about how these "repressive regimes" control their media as if western media isn't just imperial propaganda.

Also, they love listening to the bourgeois who fled those countries because they're sorry they lost their slaves.

Your probably right in some respects, but where NKs involved i'm not so sure!

 

[PabloBolivar]

China needs to take out this punk in NK

 

[Hierophant]

China assembling one of those decapitation squads as we speak.

Also North Korea, outside of ruthless propagandising does have actual reasons to despise the US due to their indiscriminate bombing during the Korean War killing off an actual 20% of their population and bombing everything that moved.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Did you explain that NK only exists because of massive Chinese support in the Korean War?

If you look at the history, you'd think just the opposite: That China would always have NK's back.

That they are even distancing themselves from NK at all in the last few years is the real novelty.

Most definitely. He's so adamant about so much political shit around the office but i never engage cause he's usually so obviously just repeating what his parents shill that i'm not even interested. In this instance he actually seemed interested enough to learn when i started telling him that China would absolutely not just sit back and relax as we did whatever we wanted to NK... then came the supply and train stealing stories... then came the crash course history lesson ... and then came the current state of affairs talk where I had to lay out to him that no.. sorry bro... we are NOT the world power we were 50 freakin years ago and yes absolutely we should want to keep a keen on what China thinks and does and says cause they will be directing the policy around the world while Prince Cheeto is in office.

It was one of those odd conversations where you have to remind yourself that not everyone shares the same knowledge about the same stuff even if you're lives/home/work are pretty similar. He left with a hefty sense of "well fuck that seems like a perilous situation" kind of look on his face. Which is healthy lol

 

[Mimosa97]

Sounds fair enough really.

China saying they'd strike back if South Korea tries to topple the Kim regime is very far from fair. China just shows that they don't give one single fuck about human rights or the lives of the north Korean people.

 

[zelas]

We are on a fast track toward.... nothing happening. Status quo as usual, despite Trump, NK nukes, etc.

I'll make sure to forget these weeks and the previous 1000 dust ups the next time NK stirs the pot.

 

[BocoDragon]

Your probably right in some respects, but where NKs involved i'm not so sure!

With NK they call the leader "craaaaazy".

Which I think is interesting, because it's not actually based on this leaders' personal track record. And while the state is wild, they're doing exactly what NK has done for decades. I haven't seen evidence that this Kim is a Gadaffi or a Trump or a Duterte.

I think anyone who sits in that chair gets called crazy. And he might well be crazy! But no one actually cares to prove this?

I'll make sure to forget these weeks and the previous 1000 dust ups the next time NK stirs the pot.

We literally do go through this every year. There are new variables (Trump, NK closer to ICBM nukes)... but the overwhelming tendency is for every side to bare teeth and go home.

 

[Jeff6851]

China saying they'd strike back if South Korea tries to topple the Kim regime is very far from fair. China just shows that they don't give one single fuck about human rights or the lives of the north Korean people.

Apparently South Korea doesn't either. So much so that people return to North Korea.

 

[Bobnob]

With NK they call the leader "craaaaazy".

Which I think is interesting, because it's not actually based on this leaders' personal track record. And while the state is wild, they're doing exactly what NK has done for decades. I haven't seen evidence that this Kim is a Gadaffi or a Trump or a Duterte.

I think anyone who sits in that chair gets called crazy. And he might well be crazy! But no one actually cares to prove this?

Didnt he have family members killed recently? And a general killed by dogs? Serious questions

 

[Piecake]

Apparently South Korea doesn't either. So much so that people return to North Korea.

Going off of this and your other post, are you arguing that North Korea is actually good and what we hear about it is baseless propaganda?

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Thank goodness because a war involving China would basically lead down to horribleness.

 

[TAJ]

Didnt he have family members killed recently? And a general killed by dogs? Serious questions

He had his defense minister blown apart by an anti-aircraft gun for falling asleep at an event.
He executed his own uncle.

 

[BocoDragon]

Didnt he have family members killed recently? And a general killed by dogs? Serious questions

Yeah. I wouldn't defend it... but I'm sure that isn't the whim of some impulsive Joffrey looking for kicks. When people represent a challenge to your throne in that environment, you publically neutralize them. Advisors told him to do that, I'm sure.

State is definitely crazy. That's not at question. I just look at this Kim as someone who has to navigate it, rather than someone who shapes it.

I'm open to being proven wrong at any time.

 

[jstripes]

So basically this is going to be going on between North Korea and Trump for the foreseeable future:

 

[Xando]

This is not really a new position. That’s why it’s so stupid when Trump or american journalist always say china needs to do more. They’re not allies with the US and NK keeps the US from their border aswell as SK relatively small.

I don’t know if the media is just ignoring it but china plays nice with sanctions without actually enforcing them.

China is still actively supporting the NK missile program despite sanctions in place for years.

 

[Jeff6851]

Going off of this and your other post, are you arguing that North Korea is actually good and what we hear about it is baseless propaganda?

North Korea is revisionist but they're not the country that invades and ruins other countries. They have reason to hate the US (if you are unaware, you should read up on what the US did to their country in the war). It's also not the awful place it's made out to be (they tried to make Cuba look awful too but plenty of people who live there or visited showed it was far better than any Latin American country that stayed capitalist).

Would I want to live there? No, but I wouldn't trust the US on any state that claims to be socialist.

 

[mieumieu]

It's also not the awful place it's made out to be

Then trust a Chinese like me. It is an awful place, I would say even worse than China in the 1970s.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

So if NK attacks Guam, even launches a missile in its waters this gives the US the go ahead to attack without worry of China's interference.

 

[watershed]

So same as usual. NK is progressing towards becoming a nuclear state. That's what they are aiming for. The rest is just noise.

 

[always crazy bacon]

"If you two don't sit still and be quiet, I'm gonna turn this car around. I mean it. And you can forget ice cream!"

This is exactly what China is saying. They do care.

 

[Bobnob]

North Korea is revisionist but they're not the country that invades and ruins other countries. They have reason to hate the US (if you are unaware, you should read up on what the US did to their country in the war). It's also not the awful place it's made out to be (they tried to make Cuba look awful too but plenty of people who live there or visited showed it was far better than any Latin American country that stayed capitalist).

Would I want to live there? No, but I wouldn't trust the US on any state that claims to be socialist.

Have you lived in or visited NKorea?

 

[rpmurphy]

Going off of this and your other post, are you arguing that North Korea is actually good and what we hear about it is baseless propaganda?

Of course it's bad there. But it is not the role nor the authority of the US to invade and install a more friendly government simply because of social or economic conditions. It would be ironic in this specific case as well, for the US in their history had given South Korea full economic support despite the SK government having committed mass murders and assassinations of its own people to crush political dissent.

 

[Pancake Mix]

North Korea is revisionist but they're not the country that invades and ruins other countries.

That's because they're like a tiny aggressive dog and about as threatening in everything but the sheer size of their standing army. If they could invade countries, they would.

Also, shame on you for your nonsensical position I'm not even going to quote. You're lucky you live in the West where you can publicly complain about your country's behaviour. People in places like North Korea or China don't have that choice.

 

[Bob Coffee]

It'll be status quo unless kimmy has a death wish. Just let them settle it over twitter with bad tweets instead of shows of millitary force.

 

[Jeff6851]

Have you lived in or visited NKorea?

No, I'm going by the fact that people return to North Korea after leaving.

 

[Jeff6851]

That's because they're like a tiny aggressive dog and about as threatening in everything but the sheer size of their standing army. If they could invade countries, they would.

Also, shame on you for your nonsensical position I'm not even going to quote. You're lucky you live in the West where you can publicly complain about your country's behaviour. People in places like North Korea or China don't have that choice.

My position is that the west needs to stay the fuck away from other countries.

 

[ahoyhoy]

So if NK attacks Guam, even launches a missile in its waters this gives the US the go ahead to attack without worry of China's interference.

That's what it sounds like.

If they get it through the Security council they're doubly fucked.

 

[Piecake]

North Korea is revisionist but they're not the country that invades and ruins other countries. They have reason to hate the US (if you are unaware, you should read up on what the US did to their country in the war). It's also not the awful place it's made out to be (they tried to make Cuba look awful too but plenty of people who live there or visited showed it was far better than any Latin American country that stayed capitalist).

Would I want to live there? No, but I wouldn't trust the US on any state that claims to be socialist.

North Korea invaded South Korea. I find it rather odd that you say North Korea doesn't invade other nations when they invaded South Korea and then go on to blame America for doing bad stuff to North Korea during the war that North Korea started.

Plus,the reason why North Korea doesn't invade any other nation is that they would get annihilated if they did. I mean, I think they would certainly invade South Korea if they knew they could get away with it. You don't get awesome peace points for that.

Do you actually have any evidence that supports your claim that North Korea is better than advertised or any evidence to show that the the reporting about North Korea is baseless propaganda? I'll be honest, it really seems like your view about North Korea is more motivated by the desire to prop them up because they claim that they are socialist and that they are enemies of America.

I certainly would not describe North Korea as socialist. They are basically a nationalist fascist kleptocracy.

 

[4Tran]

This is not really a new position. That’s why it’s so stupid when Trump or american journalist always say china needs to do more. They’re not allies with the US and NK keeps the US from their border aswell as SK relatively small.

I don’t know if the media is just ignoring it but china plays nice with sanctions without actually enforcing them.

China is still actively supporting the NK missile program despite sanctions in place for years.

If China was actively supporting North Korea's nuclear weapon and missile programs then they would be far more sophisticated than they are today. The reality is that China's leadership is no more happy about Kim Jong Un's antics than anyone else, but they have a large stake in preventing war in the Korean peninsula, and all of their strategic moves are consistent with this stance. Bear in mind that the only country with more at stake here other than North Korea itself is South Korea.

 

[Pancake Mix]

My position is that the west needs to stay the fuck away from other countries.

Really, in a thread about China, who do no such thing?

 

[Jeff6851]

North Korea invaded South Korea. I find it rather odd that you say North Korea doesn't invade other nations when they invaded South Korea and then go on to blame America for doing bad stuff to North Korea during the war that North Korea started.

Plus,the reason why North Korea doesn't invade any other nation is that they would get annihilated if they did. I mean, I think they would certainly invade South Korea if they knew they could get away with it. You don't get awesome peace points for that.

Do you actually have any evidence that supports your claim that North Korea is better than advertised or any evidence to show that the the reporting about North Korea is baseless propaganda? I'll be honest, it really seems like your view about North Korea is more motivated by the desire to prop themselves up because they claim that they are socialist and that they are enemies of America.

I certainly would not describe North Korea as socialist. They are basically a nationalist fascist kleptocracy.

North Korea invaded the South because both sides felt they had the legitimate government of Korea and they wanted to reunite it. This is much different than the US invading Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

My evidence is that people return to North Korea. It's advertised as the worst place imaginable that people would do anything to leave.

I wouldn't describe it as socialist either, they're revisionist, Juche as they call it. It's not fascism just "Korean Marxism".

Really, in a thread about China, who do no such thing?

Not a fan of modern China either.

 

[Bobnob]

My evidence is that people return to North Korea. It's advertised as the worst place imaginable that people would do anything to leave.

Maybe to go back to love ones, maybe kidnapped ????

I am starting to think you talk a load of bollox tho! Not gonna lie