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[Maninthemirror]

http://www.pixelux.com/Remedy-QuantumBreak2013.html

DMM Playback is an exciting new product from Pixelux Entertainment. First used in Remedy Entertainment's Exciting Xbox One Title, "Quantum Break", DMM Playback allows anyone to create very high quality 3-dimensional destruction animations with the DMM Authoring tools (included in DMM Plugin) and play them back in-game with very low overhead and nearly perfect compression.

With DMM Playback, you can easily display over a million polygons of high quality destruction in your game without breaking a sweat. With compression ratios of 60x, DMM Playback is superior to any bones-based techniques for the playback of deformation-based destruction animation.

The DMM Playback system allows 3-dimensional animations produced with the DMM plugin to be played back in-game with real-time performance. DMM Playback makes use of GPU-acceleration to minimize CPU overhead.

Is this a physics Middleware to do realtime but not gameplay animations? sounds like it in the description

 

[sn00zer]

http://www.pixelux.com/Remedy-QuantumBreak2013.html



Is this a physics Middleware to do realtime but not gameplay animations? sounds like it in the description

Ohhhhh this makes more sense...HL2 episode 2 and Portal 2 used this extensively...Valve called it cinematic physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNCgs_47t28

Its basically prerendering large physic event then saving them as a general animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cRozk5-gao#t=187

 

[Perkel]

Ohhhhh this makes more sense...HL2 episode 2 and Portal 2 used this extensively...Valve called it cinematic physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNCgs_47t28

Its basically prerendering large physic event then saving them as a general animation

Which means that bridge destruction in reveal was prebaked

 

[SystemBug]

Which means that bridge destruction in reveal was prebaked

however, iirc, Remedy said that the bridge destruction is player controlled in a sense that they can chose when to stop it, so you could play the scene when the bridge is completely totaled or when it isn't as destroyed.

 

[-Deimos]

Cool, I was hoping more next gen game would use this kind of system. Does anyone know if QB is coming to PC as well?

gifs

What is the source of all these gifs?

 

[TAJ]

I am not talking about rendering i am talking about calculating.

FU had just prebaked stuff

Proof?
Because I've played it and it seemed pretty clear that it wasn't. Unless they prebaked solutions for every possible point on every object from every direction...

 

[Chobel]

however, iirc, Remedy said that the bridge destruction is player controlled in a sense that they can chose when to stop it, so you could play the scene when the bridge is completely totaled or when it isn't as destroyed.

That's nothing, it just means that player can stop/resume the pre-baked animation at any time.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Sounds very next gen.

Can't wait to see it in action.

 

[eot]

Which means that bridge destruction in reveal was prebaked

Of course, FEM is used for static simulation. It's not a real-time method.

 

[sn00zer]

Which means that bridge destruction in reveal was prebaked

Of course it was why on earth would you do large scale physics in real time?

 

[Iced_Eagle]

What is the source of all these gifs?

They're from the Xbox reveal.

 

[ionicbluebird]

I don't know if there will be dynamic destruction though.. I think it's more of the pre-scripted variety.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Wow this came back?

 

[sn00zer]

I don't know if there will be dynamic destruction though.. I think it's more of the pre-scripted variety.

When ever these systems are used they take over for large scale events, but smaller items that the player can interact with will use the usual physics systems

It makes sense...how much influence would an individual body have on the physics of a collapsing building versus a coffee cup.

 

[WolfForager]

Having used Finite Element Analysis for projects in the past I somehow doubt that they're using true FEA. I've set a model to run on a fairly modern PC for a simple beam and had to leave it for over a minute while it did all the calculations, so I can't see a console mapping all these objects in real time.. I'm completely unfamiliar with this DMM model, but I'm assuming it's a toned down FEA model as opposed to a full one.

Interested to see how it pans out.

EDIT: A minute for calculations may be over-exaggerated for a beam, but it'll be alot longer than real-time anyway.

 

[sn00zer]

Having used Finite Element Analysis for projects in the past I somehow doubt that they're using true FEA. I've set a model to run on a fairly modern PC for a simple beam and had to leave it for over a minute while it did all the calculations, so I can't see a console mapping all these objects in real time.. I'm completely unfamiliar with this DMM model, but I'm assuming it's a toned down FEA model as opposed to a full one.

Interested to see how it pans out.

Its not doing it in real time read the above posts...it renders the animation using FEM, then just saves the result as a general animation

 

[Dr_Swales]

Of course, FEM is used for static simulation. It's not a real-time method.

Which is what I was thinking. This would be a good application to run on MS's cloud based services.

Because there is no way you can run real time finite element analysis in real-time on a console. For one object at a time maybe, but not a system of objects.

This is sounding interesting. I like new tech in games.

 

[mrdark]

All I see is a buzz-word. Wake me up when they actually show this in action.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Which is what I was thinking. This would be a good application to run on MS's cloud based services.

Because there is no way you can run real time finite element analysis in real-time on a console. For one object at a time maybe, but not a system of objects.

This is sounding interesting. I like new tech in games.

Unless I'm mistaken , Azure is used for server side processing for online not local processing
. If azure did local processing the game would always be connected to play and a weak connection would break the game. Gamers should stop assuming cloud gaming means extra processing to graphically run the game better

 

[hesido]

Quantum Break uses DMM playback and it's not hinted anywhere that this is a realtime process.

From:
http://www.pixelux.com/Remedy-QuantumBreak2013.html?id=20614102&siteID=123112&linkID=9242259

With DMM Playback, you can easily display over a million polygons of high quality destruction in your game without breaking a sweat. With compression ratios of 60x, DMM Playback is superior to any bones-based techniques for the playback of deformation-based destruction animation.

Some Examples of DMM Playback from Remedy's amazing Title, "Quantum Break":

Breaking things "dynamically" does not always mean real-time, realistic destruction is not only a problem in the realtime domain, but it's also a challenge for non-realtime renderings.

For the ship crash scene, the destruction does not have to be calculated realtime, it's a feat in itself to display so much destruction in realtime, to be able to play it back, time-scale it, pause it and so on, these are great technical achievements, to be able to show that destruction with so much fidelity.

So, the question to what extent are they using this tech real-time for dynamic destruction remains. In The Order, they are going for a realtime version of this but I'm sure they would be baking stuff for scenes of mass destruction.

Also, even when you do have the compute power to do that scale destrcution realtime, there would be still times you would choose to bake things, you want to have some control over what happens when your 50 meter tower collapses or a ship goes right into a bridge.

 

[wapplew]

Interesting stuff. I hope the game do not suffer from over ambitious and not able to execute.

 

[Fezan]

Ohhhhh this makes more sense...HL2 episode 2 and Portal 2 used this extensively...Valve called it cinematic physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNCgs_47t28

Its basically prerendering large physic event then saving them as a general animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cRozk5-gao#t=187

well this is disspointing

 

[Huggy]

The last real time implementation was seen in Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2 as far as I can see in the wiki. I'm curious to see what next gen will deliver us.
Hopefully more than Force bending metal doors..

 

[Maninthemirror]

Quantum Break uses DMM playback and it's not hinted anywhere that this is a realtime process.

From:
http://www.pixelux.com/Remedy-QuantumBreak2013.html?id=20614102&siteID=123112&linkID=9242259




Breaking things "dynamically" does not always mean real-time, realistic destruction is not only a problem in the realtime domain, but it's also a challenge for non-realtime renderings.

For the ship crash scene, the destruction does not have to be calculated realtime, it's a feat in itself to display so much destruction in realtime, to be able to play it back, time-scale it, pause it and so on, these are great technical achievements, to be able to show that destruction with so much fidelity.

So, the question to what extent are they using this tech real-time for dynamic destruction remains. In The Order, they are going for a realtime version of this but I'm sure they would be baking stuff for scenes of mass destruction.

Also, even when you do have the compute power to do that scale destrcution realtime, there would be still times you would choose to bake things, you want to have some control over what happens when your 50 meter tower collapses or a ship goes right into a bridge.

Playing back animations ingame is realtime

 

[WolfForager]

Its not doing it in real time read the above posts...it renders the animation using FEM, then just saves the result as a general animation

Well I'm wholly disappointed.

 

[Amey]

Maya DMM Wood

Maya DMM Jell-O

 

[elektrixx]

I think I'm immune to these kinds of articles. Things are too different when DF and other specific sites know what's really going on.

 

[hesido]

Playing back animations ingame is realtime

People are talking about calculating the destruction realtime, like what would happen if the crash occured a few meters away and so on.

I think you missed the part I said:

it's a feat in itself to display so much destruction in realtime, to be able to play it back, time-scale it, pause it and so on, these are great technical achievements, to be able to show that destruction with so much fidelity.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Playing back animations ingame is realtime

While true, everybody is excited about the idea of influencing those physics/destruction in realtime... that would be a limited option then, i believe.

 

[mocoworm]

Very high hopes for this game.

Alan Wake was one of the best games of last gen.

 

[Atruvius]

did any of these games have anything special due to this?

http://www.giantbomb.com/digital-molecular-matter/3015-3664/games/

haven't played both

I remember TFU having some pretty cool tech demo videos where they threw R2D2 at wooden panels, metal doors etc. and they all behaved as you would expect: wood cracked and metal bent realistically. In the final game the effect wasn't nearly as impressive as in the videos, I didn't really even notice it being in the game.

But it looks pretty neat in those videos.

 

[TAJ]

When ever these systems are used they take over for large scale events, but smaller items that the player can interact with will use the usual physics systems

It makes sense...how much influence would an individual body have on the physics of a collapsing building versus a coffee cup.

Well, Superman can murder entire buildings full of people.

 

[GrizzNKev]

It sounds to me like it's a mix between baked an realtime. All of the actual physics are baked, the system knows a large amount of possible output through lengthy pre-calculation. The realtime part uses the player interaction a parameter, then spits out the correct physics data that already exists.

It's behavior prediction/definition and reaction playback.

 

[TAJ]

I remember TFU having some pretty cool tech demo videos where they threw R2D2 at wooden panels, metal doors etc. and they all behaved as you would expect: wood cracked and metal bent realistically. In the final game the effect wasn't nearly as impressive as in the videos, I didn't really even notice it being in the game.

But it looks pretty neat in those videos.

I went out of my way to play with it.
Force throwing people through sheets of glass <3

 

[WJD]

Give me a Christmas 2014 bundle with this and Halo 5 (providing it's not like 4) and I've got me a Bone.

 

[Marvel]

I am very excited about this game... Alan Wake was incredible I think this is in for a chance to be also. Loving the sound of the DMM tech.

 

[Dr_Swales]

Unless I'm mistaken , Azure is used for server side processing for online not local processing
. If azure did local processing the game would always be connected to play and a weak connection would break the game. Gamers should stop assuming cloud gaming means extra processing to graphically run the game better

That's correct Azure is server side and would require an internet connection. I am not stating that Azure can be used for graphics processing. It could be used, however for finite element modelling which is a lot more tolerable to latency as it's the initial calculation of forces acting on the object which is the most time consuming.

Once the initial model has been calculated it is a less intense calculation to figure out where objects are going to end up. That is until a collision happens and a new model must then be calculated.

The graphics processing, which I never mentioned in my previous post, would always be done locally.

EDIT: From what is being said it doesn't look like this is what's happening in this game though =(

 

[Xyber]

Come on MS, show that PC some love. This game sounds really interesting, but I'm not getting a XBO for it.

 

[Barzul]

Come on MS, show that PC some love. This game sounds really interesting, but I'm not getting a XBO for it.

I hope we'll see a PC port. But with MS making a TV show for this and them owning the IP, looks like they want this to become a big exclusive for them.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Maya DMM Wood

Maya DMM Jell-O

Now this what could change something in a next gen game vs this gen.
Physics are all what matters for me. Way more than graphics in general. I'd rather have less polygons on cars or anything in a game but having this type of technology can bring the feel of real, not just the look of it.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Okay, from what I can take from this applied technology is that the destruction is "real-time" in the sense that it happens in-game but the destruction is "pre-determined" from a scripted standpoint outside the player's influence unless prompted to.

Am I correct?

 

[-Winnie-]

Didn't Force Unleashed 2 have this kind of thing?

 

[WolfForager]

That's correct Azure is server side and would require an internet connection. I am not stating that Azure can be used for graphics processing. It could be used, however for finite element modelling which is a lot more tolerable to latency as it's the initial calculation of forces acting on the object which is the most time consuming.

Once the initial model has been calculated it is a less intense calculation to figure out where objects are going to end up. That is until a collision happens and a new model must then be calculated.

The graphics processing, which I never mentioned in my previous post, would always be done locally.

EDIT: From what is being said it doesn't look like this is what's happening in this game though =(

Your confusing the hell out me here.

Walk me through what would happen (cloud side and locally) if:

A) A bullet were to hit/shatter a timber construct and the animation had been calculated previously.

B) A bullet were to hit/shatter a timber construct and the animation had not been calculated previously.

I just don't understand how and of this can be done in real time, unless it's pre-baked.

 

[Dr_Swales]

Your confusing the hell out me here.

Walk me through what would happen (cloud side and locally) if:

A) A bullet were to hit/shatter a timber construct and the animation had been calculated previously.

B) A bullet were to hit/shatter a timber construct and the animation had not been calculated previously.

The way I see it:

A) If the model was pre-calculated, the bullet would hit and interact realistically.

B) The bullet would hit and a collision would be detected. The colliding objects details would be sent to a server which calculates the model sends it back to the game. Then the bullet would then interact realistically.

To calculate the model using the resources of just a console or a single PC would take a few seconds-minutes; depending on how complex the system is (number of objects). The problem with situation A is that there is only a finite number of situations you could pre-calculate; where-as solution B would mean there is an infinite number of situations because they are calculated when they are encountered on-the-fly.

 

[lefantome]

finally! euphoria + DMM as a standard please!

 

[haikira]

In remedy I trust. If I haven't got an Xbox One by the time this is out, It'll 100% push me to buy one.

 

[jaythagamer]

it sounds like record the high quality destruction and just play it back in realtime in the game
while this will no doubt look very impressive, it's not at all dynamic destruction
at least this is what I understand from reading the article
still can't wait to see it in action though
I'm probably buying an xbox one eventually and this is one of the games I'm very interested in

 

[aravuus]

finally! euphoria + DMM as a standard please!

Was just going to post this. More games need to use Euphoria and DMM, the technologies are frankly pretty fucking awesome.

Better physics and destruction and so on are the number one thing I want to see more in PS4 and Xbone games. The graphics are good enough already.

 

[abracadaver]

If its so good why not show it off ?

 

[Fried Food]

hopefully this new gen can do DMM justice.