As for Detain/No Detain on D1, what was the reasoning behind it? Just feels like we're essentially voting blind right now, and have a better chance of detaining one of our own power roles than we do catching mafia this early.
You still didn't tell me why I should revoke the vote.
Here is the truth:
As LoC recognized, my vote was in fact random. In mafia, the very first moments of the game are usually filled of 'now what' type of posts due to a lack of direction. By immediately voting someone, I have accomplished in moving the game along, and have gotten people to start thinking and searching, even if I'm the one with the most suspicion.
But that all would happen regardless of whether or not I voted Palmer, or someone else. No, I chose Palmer specifically because he was a veteran. I followed the last game, so I understood that he knows how to defend himself against suspicion. My hope was that he would make a quick but easily readable defense, and we would all have someone who we would almost certainly be able to trust, an asset that is invaluable to the rebels. I couldn't state this as my goal until he had the chance to defend himself, otherwise it might have gone down differently.
But then something strange happened. Instead of saying 'I'm not scum, this is why', he decided to make me look as suspicious as possible, using a third party role as the auspicious proposal, rather than the far more contraversial scum label.
Now I am not going to stand here and tell you he is for sure a Hut, that would just be outrageous this early in the day. But his defense has not adequately convinced me at all that he isn't. As such, until someone else is more suspicious than him, or if he provides a better defence, my vote will stay.
Going by that logic we would have to go with No Detain on following days to. I doubt we will have enough information to find a Empire player soon. By not voting we don't use our Rebel power while the Empire will take us out during the night.
For now this is my vote:
Vote: swamped
I'll probably wait until Monday and then randomly choose someone that hasn't posted yet to lynch.
My only problem with that argument is that a D1 Detain means if that person had a power role that could have helped, they'll never get a chance to use it. Let's say we accidentally lynch a Cop. They could role claim it today, but would have 0 information to corroborate. We back down, they just get mafia killed anyway. If we don't back down, we kill our cop for no gain. If this all happens D2 instead, they have a chance to tell us what info they've gathered, and we can decide from there what to do.
Assuming we pick a cop by chance: This will force him to role claim. Which makes him a likely target during the night. But we probably have other roles to help us in that case. Someone may be able to protect or watch the cop. Which makes the cop actually an unlikely target for a nightly attack.
I admit to wanting to make you my first vote due to you muddying the water a bit...but you're right about one thing, I shouldn't be so hasty. I will not be some Nerf that gets herded by someone like...like a Herder.That is fair, but I am confident in my decisions, so I would advise anyone who might share the sentiment to hold on a little longer before voting me as well, the last thing we would want is a bandwagon for the huts to jump on to end the day early.
It just seems like a really big risk for very little gain. Do you really think a handful of random detain votes will lead to anything useful?
I don't think so. On Day 2 some power users will have learned something, right. But they will most likely keep it to themselves during the first few days.
Why are we voting Swamped?
Random.
You still didn't tell me why I should revoke the vote.
Here is the truth:
As LoC recognized, my vote was in fact random. In mafia, the very first moments of the game are usually filled of 'now what' type of posts due to a lack of direction. By immediately voting someone, I have accomplished in moving the game along, and have gotten people to start thinking and searching, even if I'm the one with the most suspicion.
But that all would happen regardless of whether or not I voted Palmer, or someone else. No, I chose Palmer specifically because he was a veteran. I followed the last game, so I understood that he knows how to defend himself against suspicion. My hope was that he would make a quick but easily readable defense, and we would all have someone who we would almost certainly be able to trust, an asset that is invaluable to the rebels. I couldn't state this as my goal until he had the chance to defend himself, otherwise it might have gone down differently.
But then something strange happened. Instead of saying 'I'm not scum, this is why', he decided to make me look as suspicious as possible, using a third party role as the auspicious proposal, rather than the far more contraversial scum label.
Now I am not going to stand here and tell you he is for sure a Hut, that would just be outrageous this early in the day. But his defense has not adequately convinced me at all that he isn't. As such, until someone else is more suspicious than him, or if he provides a better defence, my vote will stay.
It still influences voting. Nothing does on day 1 - it's 100% random.
Not 100% random. Once people started to post it stopped being totally random.
I agree with both Quantum and Palmer that this is the best way to go. As was pointed out to me last game, rebels/townies have no reasons to lurk. Hutts/mafia on the other hand, do: to avoid giving away information.I'll probably wait until Monday and then randomly choose someone that hasn't posted yet to lynch.
My only problem with that argument is that a D1 Detain means if that person had a power role that could have helped, they'll never get a chance to use it. Let's say we accidentally lynch a Cop. They could role claim it today, but would have 0 information to corroborate. We back down, they just get mafia killed anyway. If we don't back down, we kill our cop for no gain. If this all happens D2 instead, they have a chance to tell us what info they've gathered, and we can decide from there what to do
Assuming we pick a cop by chance: This will force him to role claim. Which makes him a likely target during the night. But we probably have other roles to help us in that case. Someone may be able to protect or watch the cop. Which makes the cop actually an unlikely target for a nightly attack.
No matter what, cops (or anyone really) should NOT claim today. Saying they have a power role is all that's required. Let's not give the Hutts any info they can use.
So out of interest, what would be a quick easily readable defense that wouldn't be an obvious role-claim?
I honest felt that I probably should've let it go a little longer, but I felt doing so might do more harm than good, so I decided to err on the side of caution.I knew it. I didn't get a moment to post about this little incident but as I was reading I called that this is what would happen. Honestly you should have let it burn a little longer to get more reactions and data, but whatever. That's one way to get some action rolling.
For now I'm fine with Terrabyte. What he did was a bit contrarian, but contrarian and mafia are not always hand in hand.
Having said that, Palmers way of defending himself wasn't inherently suspicious to me either. Role claiming is often a last defense, and it's not surprising that one will defend themselves without taking it to that level. Would scum try to keep safe without giving up his role? Certainly. But would a town member do the same? It's pretty possible and even likely. I'm sure that's the route I'd take if I felt like it'd work (and you obviously had almost nothing so of course it'd work). No reason to suspect Palmer based on these events alone.
I've been reading through some if this and Terrabyte is being mighty suspicious right now. He may or may not have a reason to be doing this but if we did decide to go with him it could be interesting to see. Im not fully convinced with him though.
Is there a reason? Just asking. Want to know why we are doing this and not Terrabyte.
Even saying you have a power role is terrible on day 1. Just saying it makes you target enough.
Hutt's don't care what you do, just knowing you do something is enough. That's part of the reason why I like the idea of detaining inactives, if they have a role they should not be "inactive", In a past life taking days off is how you die, and how is rebels could lose a powerful role.
Tl;dr if you have a role, don't claim, just post and keep the conversation going
In the scenario where we accidently random lynch a cop, having them soft claim would be preferable. A doc could protect them. My point is we don't need to know the full role until it's time to reveal.
Also I don't know know about detaining an inactive. I feel like that gets us as much info as no detain. Maybe in a day or two. Detaining someone making posts without the town's best interest in mind is preferable to me.
I definitely agree with this. Detaining an inactive is worse than a No Detain because not only do we get no info, we are down one rebel with nothing to show for it.In the scenario where we accidently random lynch a cop, having them soft claim would be preferable. A doc could protect them. My point is we don't need to know the full role until it's time to reveal.
Also I don't know know about detaining an inactive. I feel like that gets us as much info as no detain. Maybe in a day or two. Detaining someone making posts without the town's best interest in mind is preferable to me.
Also I don't know know about detaining an inactive. I feel like that gets us as much info as no detain. Maybe in a day or two. Detaining someone making posts without the town's best interest in mind is preferable to me.
I really dislike this post, it feels really shady to me. Whether Terabyte20xx's actions were successful or not, the intention behind them were clearly in the rebel's interest. There would be zero reason for the mob to come in that strong and draw attention to themselves.
Meanwhile Worthy's posts have been wishy washy as if trying to get some rebels in the lynch TB camp without going in so hard that a lynch could be traced back to them.
VOTE: TheWorthyEdge
I'm willing to change my vote if need be, but I feel like this is exactly the sort of post the mob would make day one.
I really dislike this post, it feels really shady to me. Whether Terabyte20xx's actions were successful or not, the intention behind them were clearly in the rebel's interest. There would be zero reason for the mob to come in that strong and draw attention to themselves.
Meanwhile Worthy's posts have been wishy washy as if trying to get some rebels in the lynch TB camp without going in so hard that a lynch could be traced back to them.
VOTE: TheWorthyEdge
I'm willing to change my vote if need be, but I feel like this is exactly the sort of post the mob would make day one.
Random.
Woah. I wake up this morning, on a harsh, desolate, foreign planet and see two votes to detain me! That has certainly taken me back. Fellow crashees, please explain?
I'm reading through the last Mafia thread to see why random lynching is being considered. That seems like an insane strategy to me. I will probably vote No Detain.
Well, until then:Can MattyG get in here with a vote tally?
There is actually merit to that. By voting it puts pressure on the player. If the player can stand the heat, it makes it far more likely to trust that they are an ally. Finding allies is just as, if not more important than finding scum.They just need someone to detain and chose you randomly because you hadn't posted.
They just need someone to detain and chose you randomly because you hadn't posted.
This definitely strikes me as more noticeable than the Tera vs. Palmer scuffle or a random vote. I do believe in having some idea of a vote on the early days, and for now
VOTE: TheWorthyEdge
...makes the most sense with where things are at this early stage.
Guys, don't read too much into my ploy. It was simply done to jumpstart the game and get people to start searching out scum and finding allies. I didn't actually suspect palmer at the time voting, and I am warming up to him as the game continues to progress.
That is completely reasonable, actually. The issue is, I guess, determining what qualifies as "sort of suspicious".Unless we get lucky and pick scum, we're really just playing Simon Says.
Picking someone who is at least sort of suspicious gives us a baseline to work with tomorrow.
What? I really don't understand why people are voting me when there are others being far more I interesting and peculiar. I have no reason to be voted at this current stage so it's a bit premature. Still nobody has answered my question on why we don't vote TB.