Maybe to go back to love ones, maybe kidnapped ????
I am starting to think you talk a load of bollox tho! Not gonna lie
So I say something that is actually happening and you just make guesses why it's happening and I'm talking bollox?
Maybe to go back to love ones, maybe kidnapped ????
I am starting to think you talk a load of bollox tho! Not gonna lie
And just plain old culture shock. But yeah, 3% of defectors possibly returning to North Korea(unconfirmed, maybe less) is such an incredibly stupid reason to think that maybe North Korea isn't such a bad place.Maybe to go back to love ones, maybe kidnapped ????
I am starting to think you talk a load of bollox tho! Not gonna lie
The main difference between NK and SK was that NK received support from the Soviets and China to build up its military for a takeover; SK did not receive such support from the US because the US was opposed to such a scenario. Had the reverse power balance occurred, it would have been SK being the aggressor, which by no means suggests that it would have been "wrong", as unification was the desired end goal from everyone from the very beginning (but had been complicated due to the spread of communism that the US felt was unacceptable). The discussion of the conflict here simply on who-attacked-who-first ignores the underlying and unsolved problem of the NK/SK divide that was created due to the Soviet/US split after WWII that was not desired at all by Koreans of both sides. Also, guess who didn't sign the armistice? South Korea. Certainly, both countries since then had lead very different paths, but it's important to understand that it's not simply a black-and-white issue at hand.North Korea invaded South Korea. I find it rather odd that you say North Korea doesn't invade other nations when they invaded South Korea and then go on to blame America for doing bad stuff to North Korea during the war that North Korea started.
Plus,the reason why North Korea doesn't invade any other nation is that they would get annihilated if they did. I mean, I think they would certainly invade South Korea if they knew they could get away with it. You don't get awesome peace points for that.
Do you actually have any evidence that supports your claim that North Korea is better than advertised or any evidence to show that the the reporting about North Korea is baseless propaganda? I'll be honest, it really seems like your view about North Korea is more motivated by the desire to prop them up because they claim that they are socialist and that they are enemies of America.
I certainly would not describe North Korea as socialist. They are basically a nationalist fascist kleptocracy.
And your guessing its not that bad of a place. LolSo I say something that is actually happening and you just make guesses why it's happening and I'm talking bollox?
My evidence is that people return to North Korea. It's advertised as the worst place imaginable that people would do anything to leave.
Typically it doesn't matter really, however in the case of North Korea(among others) you really don't want these "fragile" governments with nukes because
1. the government falls apart, materials, weapons, data, etc go to anyone.
or
2. the collapsing government could potentially use those weapons to try holding on to its power.
Honestly, the more nukes out there and countries with them the higher the chance something happens with one eventually.
So basically china doesn't care unless they try to get rid of crazy kim jong and communism in nk.
And your guessing its not that bad of a place. Lol
Its advertised as one of the worst places imaginable, but I don't think anyone is claiming that everyone wants to flee considering that its debatable if most North Koreans know that the outside world is better.
I think a far more likely explanation as to why some people return is that they feel alone and isolated in South Korea or the nation that they are living in. They are living in a world vastly different from their own with no family or friends, and in an urban center where it is easy to become isolated and alone. Hell, even living in an urban area might be a new experience for these people.
I'd imagine that they move back because they want their world to make sense again and to feel a sense of belonging, even if the situation is awful, just to stave off that loneliness and isolation. Plus, you can't discount good old propaganda and indoctrination.
I honestly don't know how you can call a nation that isn't as bad as advertised that admits to its own freakin people that they might have to prepare for famine and economic hardship. Not to mention the North Korean prison camps, which we have a lot of first-hand accounts of.
So China would stay neutral if NK attacks first, would throw hands if US attacks first? That's some bullshit.
A war between NK/China and US is a war no one wins, and China knows this.
But does Trump?
Yeah... no.US shouldn't strike first. At all. Ever.
Might be an idea to stop spending all ya cash on nuclear testing eh.When the entire world is cutting you off you're going to have famine and economic hardship.
US shouldn't strike first. At all. Ever.
Yeah... no.
Maybe in this case...
Lol howSo China would stay neutral if NK attacks first, would throw hands if US attacks first? That's some bullshit.
Might be an idea to stop spending all ya cash on nuclear testing eh.
Might be an idea to stop spending all ya cash on nuclear testing eh.
But they do care if NK tries to get rid of crazy Don Trump and his fascist dictatorship aims in USA.So basically china doesn't care unless they try to get rid of crazy kim jong and communism in nk.
I'm guessing that it's not as bad as advertised. I've even stated I wouldn't want to live there.
When the entire world is cutting you off you're going to have famine and economic hardship.
Isolation in South Korea isn't exclusive to North Koreans either
https://www.theguardian.com/inequal...ity-paradox-long-life-good-health-and-poverty
"We hereby give you further notice, that for each of your retaliatory missiles hitting Seoul, fifty of ours will drop to Kaesong, Pyongyang and Chongjin"
Jesus Christ, this is USA, not some third world state with three missiles. What good is all that arsenal, if it is no threat?
Say if NK attacks and then we strike...
Once we've decided to strike from (likely) the air and sea, would China move in with ground troops to secure the territory?
Say if NK attacks and then we strike...
Once we've decided to strike from (likely) the air and sea, would China move in with ground troops to secure the territory?
Do you understand that what got the world through the cold war was nobody ever striking first?
If China really wants to maintain the status quo and avoid war, they'd go in and assassinate Un and install a new leader aligned with China. Slowly bring North Korea into the modern world and end the majority of the suffering of Nks people. They get to keep their buffer state and we don't need to get on NK for threats and bluster.
It's hard work though so doubt China does anything to actually help the situation.
North Korea had famine and economic hardships before the nuclear sanctions.
They had a massive famine in the 90s due to the Soviet Union falling and Russia no longer propping them up. They are now propped up by China.
And yes, isolation, loneliness, inequality, and poverty are a fact of life. I never said otherwise.
I just find it odd that you are downplaying all of the evidence that shows that North Korea is an awful, horrible, repressive and cruel state on the basis that a few North Koreans return to North Korea. You don't even know why they are going back. You are just sticking in motives of your own, and motives that contradict the evidence that we do have.
I never stated that I liked the North Korean government. Kim il-Sung was fine but the other two not so much. My entire argument has been that
1. The country isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Never accept everything the media of a nation says about an enemy nation.
2. The US has no business invading other countries let alone regime change. We've seen this in Chile, (An attempt in) Syria, Iraq, etc.
Return to the Six Party Talks. NK is not completely unreasonable. Shit like Trump's rhetoric and Dubya's "Axis of Evil" tripe only reaffirms NK's military buildup.My hope is that South Korea would take over with the assistance of China and the United States. China agrees to this because the United States would give up its military bases and presence in South Korea.
What does "not as bad as it's made out" even mean in this case? They have wide spread famine and they use their people as slaves for the mines, yeah I Guess they don't stake people in front of their gates like good old Vlad the Impaler but is that the standard you want to defend?
Why does China feel that having a buffer between them and South Korea so important?
Do they really think the US Troops will come marching north and invade them if North Korea does not exist?
Every singnle person involved here is just making credible threats to deter war anyway. Kim with his "Guam". Trump with his "fire and fury".
This is bearing teeth as a method to get everyone else to back down.
Youve gotta love the little people panicking and news cycling over this stuff. They're the only ones who take it seriously.
Every singnle person involved here is just making credible threats to deter war anyway. Kim with his "Guam". Trump with his "fire and fury".
This is bearing teeth as a method to get everyone else to back down.
Youve gotta love the little people panicking and news cycling over this stuff. They're the only ones who take it seriously.
The US is a well-established and active military aggressor in the world. No country not allied with the US wants their forces at their doorstep for that reason alone.Why does China feel that having a buffer between them and South Korea so important?
Do they really think the US Troops will come marching north and invade them if North Korea does not exist?
I think an invasion of NK would be a good thing tbh so I hope Kim launches a missle. I can't imagine the citizenry suffering the way they are now. They could be liberated from NK's insane and harsh realities and people can live free once the war is over.
A war between NK/China and US is a war no one wins, and China knows this.
But does Trump?
The US killed how many in the Native American genocide? Slave trade? Invasions? Nuclear bombings? They have the highest rate of incarceration in the world doing slave labor. Yet, we still act like it is redeemable.
I think an invasion of NK would be a good thing tbh so I hope Kim launches a missle. I can't imagine the citizenry suffering the way they are now. They could be liberated from NK's insane and harsh realities and people can live free once the war is over.
The US killed how many in the Native American genocide? Slave trade? Invasions? Nuclear bombings? They have the highest rate of incarceration in the world doing slave labor. Yet, we still act like it is redeemable.
No China would throw hands if we retaliate by trying to overthrow Kim. If we just fight the Invasion but not overthrow. They they'll stay neutral.So China would stay neutral if NK attacks first, would throw hands if US attacks first? That's some bullshit.
Yes the US is still redeemable,
My hope is that South Korea would take over with the assistance of China and the United States. China agrees to this because the United States would give up its military bases and presence in South Korea.
Nations are governed by interest. And it's of more interest for China to have a slightly uncontrollable neighbor than one that hosts a bunch of American bases. Even if China were to be given reliable assurances that those bases would never be used against them, the US is still prone to adventurism and a change in administrations can overturn any such assurances. That and the status quo is a much easier pill to swallow than Korean War Part II.Why does China feel that having a buffer between them and South Korea so important?
Do they really think the US Troops will come marching north and invade them if North Korea does not exist?