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Alex Ward (ex-Criterion) talks about the problems launching Need For Speed: MW Wii U
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
charlequin
Banned
This is exactly how companies get into bad market situations: making judgments based on pride rather than concrete outcomes.
Yes, EA tossed Nintendo to the wind, for a mixture of good and bad reasons. Individual human beings at Nintendo were probably offended by that. But in business, that happened because EA had all the leverage in this relationship. Nintendo needed EA's support for their systems to perform well; EA didn't need Nintendo for anything. When someone has that much leverage over you, it doesn't matter if they were kind of a dick once; you're not gonna get what you want from them unless you make concessions.
Also, what I think is particularly relevant in this case is that by taking this kind of hardball approach with EA, Nintendo didn't just alienate people who were working at EA; they alienated people who left to form new developers (like Alex Ward) and all the people who talk to people at EA (and since EA's a huge company with tons of influential devs, that's almost everyone.)
Games industry is in desperate need of a union, but that's getting off topic.
Sounds like ea and Nintendo are both at fault here. It's no wonder 3rd parties drop support when Nintendo doesn't provide them any support.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Not even Nintendo wants to help 3rd party games come out on their system? Jesus.
Whether or not Nintendo should've marketed it for them can be discussed for a long time, but Criterion shouldn't expect them to do it. It isn't Nintendo's job. EA is the real culprit here. Putting developers at work for a game they don't even plan on marketing themselves is complete bullshit.
Saint Gregory
Member
It turned out to be the best console version but since it was late, un-marketed and full price it was just sent to die.
There's some truth to this but Nintendo has very rarely ever helped to market 3rd party games unless there's a publishing or some other deal in place. Under the circumstances and considering the quality of the effort they should have helped out, if not just as an olive branch to Criterion and EA.
cookie-monster
Member
that assumes that you absolve him of any shared blame in the first place. I don't make assumptions like that, especially from what I have heard of this guy.
Fair points, but that guy was hardly yelling and certainly not abusing him.
Tallshortman
Member
What? This has nothing to do with unions, he wasn't abused at work nor was he fired. He left of his own accord because he didn't like what was being done to his work, which is entirely understandable. Unions don't exist to make marketing decisions for companies.
Absolutely right. I think it has a lot to do with the ignorant notion held by some at Nintendo that they don't need others. Crytek was willing to bring Crysis 3(regardless of how people view it) but EA had no interest in funding it and when Crytek asked Nintendo they refused.
Not that Crysis 3 or a better advertised NFS would save the Wii U but sure as hell would be better than the deafening silence and large gaps of nothing released periods.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
my experience with MS/ sony is a lot more easier than working with nintendo. MS/ sony do both functional and compliance. functional always takes the longest based on how long your game is. compliance is short because most MF's are within the boot flow or the hw handing the game to sw or how the builds pass dev tools from each manufacture.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Precedented unpartnership.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Jesus, this industry is so amazingly toxic. It's amazing that these cats can even develop.
I had no idea there were people stupid enough to be pissed at criterion for NFSMW U. It was a great port and they were openly trying to push the game as hard as they could.
Would prefer if he'd answered the guy on the WiiU self publishing stuff rather than saying "Yawn" but maybe I'm not reading the whole convo there. I understand his reasons for being pissed at how his game was handled but if he's wanting to self publish and indie titles are selling ok on WiiU, then it's understandable why someone would want to know why he wasn't going for it.
Anyway, hopefully he doesn't think all WiiU owners are as narrow minded as that guy. I really enjoyed the game and supported it because it was clear how much effort had been out in. I (and I think most others) were/are fully aware why the game was late, not marketed and was a port of an old game, and it was not the fault of the developers. Criterion are/were ace.
Would prefer if he'd answered the guy on the WiiU self publishing stuff rather than saying "Yawn" but maybe I'm not reading the whole convo there. I understand his reasons for being pissed at how his game was handled but if he's wanting to self publish and indie titles are selling ok on WiiU, then it's understandable why someone would want to know why he wasn't going for it.
Anyway, hopefully he doesn't think all WiiU owners are as narrow minded as that guy. I really enjoyed the game and supported it because it was clear how much effort had been out in. I (and I think most others) were/are fully aware why the game was late, not marketed and was a port of an old game, and it was not the fault of the developers. Criterion are/were ace.
Thanks. I seem to recall hearing both, so I guess it makes sense that deals are also an option.
This game came out pretty early in the Wii U's life; Nintendo had little reason not to try to push all the games they had as hard as they could in order to get the console off the ground. They really need to overhaul how they communicate and serve third parties completely.
IsntChrisL
Member
While I think EA is more to blame here (late port, too expensive, almost no marketing), Nintendo should have done more to cater to the one goddamn racing game hitting their platform. Some sort of marketing push at the very least.
That said, totally dismissing the eShop is a mistake, I believe. It sounds like it's based purely on a bad experience he had while he was working with EA. The eShop is one area Nintendo managed to do very well with on the Wii U. Whoever's calling the shots on indie development at Nintendo needs more influence with the rest of the company.
That said, totally dismissing the eShop is a mistake, I believe. It sounds like it's based purely on a bad experience he had while he was working with EA. The eShop is one area Nintendo managed to do very well with on the Wii U. Whoever's calling the shots on indie development at Nintendo needs more influence with the rest of the company.
Samurai_Heart
Member
You're gonna need to drop some hints to his 'jerkiness' tbf. But the fact that he just tweets 'yawn' irks me a little. At least he explains afterward.
I wish one day someone will explain what happened to "unprecedented partnership" instead of the speculations of origins.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
@Nintendrone123 sounds like a troll to me. Definitely not a fan. Just look at his timeline. Nothing but hate for Nintendo.
https://twitter.com/Nintendrone123
https://twitter.com/Nintendrone123
Hero of Legend
Member
Yeah I agree. Maybe if Nintendo went all-out for MWU, and it sold well, maybe things would be different.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Huge fucks by both parties but at the end of the day it's Nintendo's system, not EA's. They need to recognize that they need to bend over backwards and completely change their culture with how they treat what few 3rd parties they may have left.
If any...
Agent X
Member
Well, this was technically before the publisher dropped them, so they could have (and should have) worked something out to help promote the game on Wii U and make it a success. Look at how heavily Microsoft is promoting and advertising Titanfall. Now, I wouldn't realistically expect NFS:MW to get nearly that amount of money thrown at it for marketing support, but it could have gotten something.
Likewise, EA should have also tried to market their own game up. I understand it was a late port and all that (which couldn't be helped--the other versions released before the Wii U console did), but EA totally dropped the ball. The Criterion guys worked hard on the game, even adding some additional polish just for this version, but EA didn't care. When the game underperformed, the corporate brass decided to abandon the platform, without considering their own failures along the way.
You could sense Mr. Ward's frustration with EA as a publisher. No wonder he left the company.
TrojanBlade
Member
Looks like Nintendo has already given up on WiiU except for some 1st party titles. If the platform holder doesn't care why the F a publisher or dev care about your platform. And then Nintendo fans blame devs/pubs for showing no support just like this guy. Shame.
In all honestly..what would be the point in Nintendo marketing a game that released months after the other versions ...which was also double or triple the price of the other versions when it launched ?
Not forgetting that it was pretty clear 5 months prior to the Wii U launching that EA had decided to dump it as a plstform.
Not forgetting that it was pretty clear 5 months prior to the Wii U launching that EA had decided to dump it as a plstform.
UltraGunner
Banned
The guy uses arrowquotes and calls himself -drone so he's probably from /v/. But god damn Ninty, if your fanboys are starting to turn on you its time to get your shit together. And lol at equating the success of indie eShop games to success with third-party AAA games.
flatearthpandas
Member
Curious: when they flew to Nintendo looking for marketing support, was that before or after the game had released on other platforms?
The dev came off a bit childish, despite being harassed by the random dude. Nintendo does offer the things he claims to be looking for and indies have found success on Nintendo platforms. He is choosing not to publish on Wii U for purely personal reasons for a situation that had plenty of blame to pass around. That's his right, but it's childish in my mind.
I understand they worked hard and by all accounts made a really great product, not saying that wasn't the case. But this was a rather childish exchange all around.
The dev came off a bit childish, despite being harassed by the random dude. Nintendo does offer the things he claims to be looking for and indies have found success on Nintendo platforms. He is choosing not to publish on Wii U for purely personal reasons for a situation that had plenty of blame to pass around. That's his right, but it's childish in my mind.
I understand they worked hard and by all accounts made a really great product, not saying that wasn't the case. But this was a rather childish exchange all around.
Japanese mentality does not work like that.
This, and BP has made me a fan of Ward's for life.
This is pretty bad. As a Nintendo supporter I really hope and expect them to get their act together when it comes to third-parties by the time they release their Wii U successor. Either that or hopefully they have a plan in mind.
Also, I'm not sure if I agree completely with his reasons not to support the Wii U with Indie games despite allowing self-publishing. I guess it depends on how difficult it is to port a game to the Wii U, but if it's not then I don't see why he could still self-publish on the console despite Nintendo not giving them disc/marketing support since those things aren't really relevant when releasing downloadable Indie games. The important thing should be that Nintendo actually does have a good self-publishing policy with Indies, which they do. Then again, he also said to never say never so we'll see, I think I see where he's coming from overall.
Also, I'm not sure if I agree completely with his reasons not to support the Wii U with Indie games despite allowing self-publishing. I guess it depends on how difficult it is to port a game to the Wii U, but if it's not then I don't see why he could still self-publish on the console despite Nintendo not giving them disc/marketing support since those things aren't really relevant when releasing downloadable Indie games. The important thing should be that Nintendo actually does have a good self-publishing policy with Indies, which they do. Then again, he also said to never say never so we'll see, I think I see where he's coming from overall.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The one game where they get a close to definitive version, and Nintendo gave absolutely zero fucks. Sounds about right.
excuse my off topic, but I call bullshit on your tag. Now after I had the guts to say it
pleasepleasepleasedon'tbanmeohwhydidIhavetosaythat
Hero of Legend
Member
You know this can turn upside down. Remember the whole Oddworld thing?:
Then at E3, two Oddworld games were announced, the reason? Nintendo came to them and they changed their minds.
Then at E3, two Oddworld games were announced, the reason? Nintendo came to them and they changed their minds.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Oh I know, perhaps it was a little premature. But just reading about what his says feeding his family, as well as seeing reports of devs taking shit tons of hours away from their families to work on a game; makes me feel...I don't know, guilty in a way.
On the topic at hand though, as a UK gaffer, I actually didn't see any promo for this game outside a YouTube trailer and the £45 price tag on Amazon. Fuck that.
Infernal Monkey
Member
Well, at least the Wii U port gave us this hilariously cringe-worthy trailer.
Yeah, I agree with that notion. I can't imagine that Sony or Microsoft would be very eager to help marketing a late port, either. There's just nothing in it for them. Even if it was technically a little superior to the other versions, it was still a game everyone interested in likely has already played.
LordBaztion
Member
Well, that's really fucked, specially from Nintendo, when trying to launch a platform.
cookie-monster
Member
I would have thought it should be common sense that people don't take a disaffected former employees opinion as gospel anyway; I was just adding some colour.
It's up to you to decide if this guy is speaking the honest truth instead just engaging in some roundabout self-marketing.
Here For The Free Feed
Member
shit scenario as NFSMWU was fantastic
In and of itself it may not mean much. But giving multiple ports more exposure may still provide the impression that there's a lot coming to the system, that it's receiving healthy support. It would also help them build relationships - and big publishers are the sort of companies that Nintendo should want to build a relationship with.
Sony is a Japanese company; they don't seem to have that problem.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Nintendo doesn't "bend over backwards" for anyone but Nintendo.
That's their biggest problem
They had no control over launch date & price (EA) and they had no support distribution/marketing wise even when asking for it. (Nintendo.)
Both are in the wrong.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I am happy he started his own company to get away from the EA mess but I am not sure why he expected support from Nintendo for an EA published/IP owned game?
I am a bit confused by that. After EA basically threw the Wii U under the bus how exactly was Nintendo support of Need For Speed Most Wanted U suppose to happen?
I loved that game and got it even after I got burnt by Mass Effect 3 on Wii U when it did not get a collector's edition. EA was burning Nintendo left and right around that time unless Alex Ward could tell us why he expected Nintendo to still step up and support his dev team it is still hard for me to understand why Nintendo is the bad guy in this OP.
Without EA as your publisher I am sure Nintendo can help you as an indie
EA can afford to burn those bridges but for an indie to hold a grudge over what happened with a NFS port is kinda weird.
I am a bit confused by that. After EA basically threw the Wii U under the bus how exactly was Nintendo support of Need For Speed Most Wanted U suppose to happen?
I loved that game and got it even after I got burnt by Mass Effect 3 on Wii U when it did not get a collector's edition. EA was burning Nintendo left and right around that time unless Alex Ward could tell us why he expected Nintendo to still step up and support his dev team it is still hard for me to understand why Nintendo is the bad guy in this OP.
Without EA as your publisher I am sure Nintendo can help you as an indie
EA can afford to burn those bridges but for an indie to hold a grudge over what happened with a NFS port is kinda weird.
Magicpaint
Member
I'm sure giving that late port of Arkham City such prominent presence during the E3 before launch did wonders for their system. I mean, I get this developer's frustration, I really do. It sucks, but there was little incentive for Nintendo to put any marketing muscle behind a late port no matter how definitive it was. At worst they are secondary to this problem and it's mostly on EA for bailing out on the very project they green-lit themselves.
so true. Which is quite surprising to see, to be honest.