Mysterious
Banned
He flew down to Nintendo. Guessing Kyoto, JP.
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Alex Ward (ex-Criterion) talks about the problems launching Need For Speed: MW Wii U
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
He flew down to Nintendo. Guessing Kyoto, JP.
It goes against the narrative people want and always want to push by focusing on EA. Nintendo can be blamed for a lot of things (they should be blamed for the state of the Wii U and more) but there are many times where they shouldn't be blamed and this is one of them. Regardless if one thinks Nintendo should advertise a third party game, a late one at that, when there is no guarantee they'll get any serious benefit from it. The main one at fault is EA and it's always been EA on this front with their games. This includes but is not limited to the WTF handling of Mass Effect 3. That's who to blame here. That's the company behind NfS.
I'm not against Nintendo advertising third party games when they can point out exclusive content and features. I think if they have a good game coming out on their system, and it has things that make the Wii U version stand out it should be pushed by Nintendo so its version sells well. However EA dropped support for the system long before the bad sales of it became the norm. Things were bad between EA and Nintendo before the system came out based on their actions. So I have to ask at large. Why would Nintendo at that point drop money on a game like Need for Speed? How would that have been them doing the right thing?
That's not even factoring in that they willingly let their own funded game, Wonderful 101 die.People really should be more upset and more concerned about that. Not that an EA made and published game port didn't get advertising money from the console maker, after said company had already cut support for future titles months earlier.I'm honestly still surprised why Most Wanted U even came out at all with how things seemed. Especially if they were willing to print disc. Why didn't they simply kill the game?
I've repeatedly stated that Nintendo fucked up the marketing on this and they've made a lot of mistakes with other games/facets of Wii U, but this isn't really one of them. This was more of EA's bullshit than Nintendo's.
This is what I was trying mention earlier on. NCL needs to do better, no denying that. But hopefully, Alex does find success and reconsiders.
You know, I've seen this line multiple times, but I've also seen devs explaining that you won't have a problem if you actually read and follow the guidelines - something many developers apparently fail to do.
Yeah, I don't think Xbox on the whole has ever been profitable. Since it never needed to be, as MS is a monstrously profitable company already, the Xbox was more a misguided (in retrospect) attempt to protect its OS business as they feared Sony using the Playstation brand as a trojan horse into every household which could later be used as a general computing device.
They never saw IOS or Android coming.
charlequin
Banned
The idea that it hasn't seems unlikely to me based on the run of data we had access to a few years ago, but you're right, I haven't gone back and checked more thoroughly since more info (like the Android licensing fees) has come out.
Putting aside that this wouldn't actually happen, the suggestion that employees being underpaid or mistreated is okay if it keeps your games cheap is pretty ghastly.
Ken Masters
Banned
I'm in favor of more expensive games if it means a better lifestyle for developers, my point was I don't think the public would tolerate a higher price tag
Hundreds, if not thousands, of employees indulging in crunch time is one of the fucking worse things about the industry. There's a big difference between "Stay back a for a few hours to finish something off" and "Remember. You're here forever!"
Dismissing unions just for "cheap games." Bah!
Ken Masters
Banned
I wasn't dismissing unions, I simply raised the issue that would occur if it happened
That's really not true...
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, the Wii U's indie support is actually one of its shining lights at this point... but I still don't blame a brand-new indie working on their first title for being wary.
Apophis2036
Banned
I honestly believe at the start of 2013 there was discussions between EA and MS not only about getting rid of used games but also getting rid of Nintendo as a hardware competitor.
It wouldn't surprise me if MS had a large hand in EA pulling all support for the console and in exchange MS would ban used games nearly forcing Sony to follow suite changing the industry forever.
This is some next level NWO shit ! ;-).
It wouldn't surprise me if MS had a large hand in EA pulling all support for the console and in exchange MS would ban used games nearly forcing Sony to follow suite changing the industry forever.
This is some next level NWO shit ! ;-).
the fact that his name is Nintendrone and has this kind of mentality towards developers without knowing a god damn thing about videogame production really says a lot about how fucking poisoned the Nintendo fan pool can be...really bad rep for people who have brand loyalty towards Nintendo's stuff.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Yep, you don't hear that often (openly, at least).
But nope. We will stick to "lazy devs." It's just easier.
Oh yeah, I have no doubt. Even though I'm about to release my first game on their service, I'm a little bit nervous at potential sales. I hear good news from other Wii U eShop titles here and there a good bit, but without numbers or references to expectations, really hard for someone like me, a newbie to this industry, to gauge potential sales. Even though I say that, I'm in a unique position where this is a hobby to me (since I have a full time job already), so my net profit is just making enough to cover the dev kit, and then it's all profit. Obviously others are here to make a living, so their expectations will be higher. With the Wii U market being a little low and capped due to low sales (like compared to PS4 sales that are exploding at every angle for instance), I'm sure that low ceiling does not help much.
Alex Ward and his new company might actually find out that Dan Adelman and his team to be much more supportive than Nintendo was before, but like you said, Ward has a reason to be wary.
Elfforkusu
Member
...so... like every other fanbase on the internet?
charlequin, a tad OT, but I've been meaning to ask. Is there a particular reason why there are no unions in the gaming industry? I seemed to remember you mentioning you knew of a few friends who had to go through horrid crunch times.
Isn't the Indie top knobs now at Nintendo ex-MS XBLA based at NoA and NoE? You'd think NCL would pick up on that...
Isn't the Indie top knobs now at Nintendo ex-MS XBLA based at NoA and NoE? You'd think NCL would pick up on that...
OmegaDL50
Member
If you read that guys Twitter comment history, you'd see he has a fairly negative outlook towards Nintendo's decisions as of late. This heavy criticism is contrary to his username, which is why the username thing is usually never a fair indicator of someones loyalty towards a hardware platform.
Bingo. You have ms and sony throwing money at third parties and we get exclusive content for each console. Console Specific dlcs. Money thrown for those extra pixels. That one specific filter in that one cut scene. All to put that only on or better with on the box. And Nintendo doesn't bribe anymore. Nintendo doesn't throw money away because a publisher with a bat tells them to do so. Heck no. Nintendo stands proud. It's all about quality and all that. Nintendo don't care. Years of great polished impeccable titles have given them a right to do so. Lol. But seriously, they should have done something.
Sure if they halved their war chest battlefield 4 would be on wiiu without any bugs. FIFA would be perfect and we'd get a special mario ringtone for snake when he calls for backup.
This. On topic. Sucks.
No dev should ever be treated like this. Mishandled. Disrespected. Have their baby thrown out into the wild. That is some cold shit.
Hope the dev recovers and wish him and his boys well on their next game. With or without Nintendo. In talent we trust.
plagiarize
Banned
right, and Alex already has bad experiences working with Nintendo before his indie has even released a game. Alex's new company is indie in the same way that Double Fine are indie, or 22 cans are. It's a not a ground up indie. This won't be his first title, just the first title with this company.
prag16
Banned
Yeah because unions work out SO well and are SO productive and efficient in the public sector and in the auto industry and basically everywhere else...
But if you prefer more expensive, lower quality games, then by all means...
flatearthpandas
Member
What was the last 5 month late port from Microsoft or Nintendo that Sony advertised? Honest question, while we're criticizing Nintendo for not advertising an EA (one of the biggest publishers in the industry) game when EA itself wouldn't advertise it.
Are you suggesting that NFS was going to sell Wii U's half a year after its original release?
If no, are you suggesting that more copies of NFS, an EA published game, sold would have made Nintendo more money?
In short, are you actually sayng a 5 month late port of NFS would have helped the Wii U? Based off of what?
Couldn't have said it better myself. Short of turning this late port into some kind of exclusive NFS spinoff, there was simply no way to salvage the situation at that point, advertising or not. You can blame Nintendo for their general handling of third party relations leading up to the Wii U's launch, but not this.
As for Alex, while I appreciate the effort his team put into the port and will buy MW on my future Wii U as a token gesture, it would've probably been a good idea to assess the situation when the game was delayed. I'm sure he was long aware of the tensions between the two companies, so why not contact Nintendo and make a pitch before deciding to put in all this extra work? I understand his frustration about getting turned down, but given EA's treatment of the Wii U, there was a pretty high chance that Nintendo wouldn't be too keen on dropping extra money to promote the game.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that most answers to the bolded will be something along the lines of "Well, Nintendo already has shit third party support, so they should be bending over backwards for whatever they can get." Thing is, creating a healthy environment for third parties is an organic process that needs to start well before a console is even revealed. Throwing dosh at advertisements for a late port accomplishes nothing.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think you're missing the fact that hadrware manufacturers, makes money through licensing software. The more support a big game receives = more sales, more sales = more money in licensing, more sales = publisher is happy and releases more games on your platform, more quality, big games on your platform = more hardware sold, more hardware sold = more software sold and repeat.
plagiarize
Banned
If the game had sold better, more third party developers would consider releasing games for the system. EA might have reconsidered withdrawing support. Every third party title that fails on the platform despite being a great game makes the platform look worse. That directly effects Nintendo's bottom line.
thebisonxrc
Member
It's unfortunate that they had a negative experience, but to their credit, the game ended up being fantastic.
Nintendo has a serious image problem which they have not lifted a finger to remedy. They need to push and advertise the little support they are getting to try to change the momentum in their favor. Perhaps they cannot win over EA, but they can soothe the wounds and perhaps get better support from other publishers who will no doubt see the effort Nintendo was putting into a title that a developer actually did bother to put effort in. Or hey, why not go a step further. So Alex is pissed at EA and decides to break off, Nintendo offers to help him set up a studio since their previous game was a great effort and were appreciative of their hard work.
No. Instead you think it is absolutely fine and dandy that they do nothing. I mean, what responsibility does Nintendo have to strengthen their own platform? I guess they have none.
redmetal86
Member
Or, he may not be a fan at all. Usually people don't call themselves Nintendrones, but someone else does it to them, especially on certain sites. That and the tweet history leave me wondering.
flatearthpandas
Member
Is there an analogous example to prove any of this? What third party game did Sony raise from the dead to bring its platform great success? Does this late port, that even its own publisher ignored, exist?
Is Sony in the same sort of pit Nintendo is in?
flatearthpandas
Member
I doesn't ask for a lesson on Nintendo's image. It sucks and I know that. But what I asked you for was any kind of example that this kind of idiotic investment would be to their benefit. Any abandoned 5 month old port will do.
flatearthpandas
Member
You have no evidence to back up anything you're saying? Noted, thanks. Give me some more advice based on nothing provable; I'm sold.
You usually see this on the PC side, with Steam releases. Even then, the most Valve/the company releasing the game will do is release some new features that doesn't change the overall game.
The biggest one I can remember was Capcom and Valve swapping characters in L4D2, and RE6 for the Steam release.
plagiarize
Banned
Nintendo have a reputation, unfair or not, that only their games sell on their systems. Every great third party game that fails to sell only reinforces this reputation. Said reputation discourages third party support, which directly hurts Nintendo who have proven not to be capable of supporting their consoles single handedly.
As a result, Nintendo should be doing more to fix this problem, which has only gotten worse. That it continues to get worse... proves that Nintendo aren't doing enough. Third parties have no responsibility to ensure the Wii U is a success. That is Nintendo's burden. They cannot make it succeed on their software support alone. This much is demonstrated. So they need third parties to succeed. If they had treated the third parties who WERE supporting the Wii U well, other third parties would have been more likely to release games on their system. They could not afford for any of their third party partners (developers or publishers) to be unhappy with their dealings with Nintendo.
That Criterion were unhappy tells us all we need to know. Nintendo didn't do enough. If they aren't treating third parties releasing games on the system well... why would anyone not releasing games on the system consider changing their stance?
The investment would not be idiotic as it is one of the few ports that actually had any effort. Its about third party relations. There is no perfect analogue as Sony and MS have never been in the same pit as Nintendo actually losing EA support. That is an unprecedented situation (ok, well there was Sega with the Dreamcast, but that was a dying company).
Its never been necessary. It is necessary for Nintendo. Their decision not to market it is idiotic. Its a third party title which actually puts their system in a positive light compared to the previous generation. Purely idiotic.
Sony and MS has never had to do this, as third parties are more than happy to work with them. Let's look at Tomb Raider. Big financial disappointment, but Square has a good enough relationship with MS and Sony to bring it over, somewhat improve it and position and market it. I have no idea if they had any help from MS or Sony, or if any was needed.
Nintendo should have taken the game under its wing and marketed it. Perhaps even come out with an official bundle with the game. Its a third party game with some effort put into it that wasn't some rainbow colored mascot game aimed at people of all ages.
Schnozberry
Member
It's too bad whatever ill will between Nintendo and EA doomed Most Wanted U. It is a fantastic game. Hopefully someone from NOE is watching this thread and cringing.
soundscream
Member
I knew the game was in trouble when I went to buy it on release day and the guy informed me I was buying the only copy they got in.
1 copy
And while EA is responsible for marketing their own game, it would have been in Nintendos intreast to promote it a little since at the time of release the system had a very large game drought.
1 copy
And while EA is responsible for marketing their own game, it would have been in Nintendos intreast to promote it a little since at the time of release the system had a very large game drought.
hodayathink
Member
But you're not realizing that the whole reason for the negative shipments was because the console wasn't selling at all since basically the start of 2013. They only shipped about 400,000 WiiU's in Q4 2012 (Jan-March 2013), so the "drought" wouldn't have had that much to do with how bad sales were at that point. Not to mention that Jan-early March is almost always a drought when it comes to game releases, with maybe a game or two coming out that's an unexpected success.
flatearthpandas
Member
Thank you. It's kind of refreshing to post a one sentence question and have someone manage to answer it.
Is there a measurement on how much advertising cash Valve spent on the RE6 Stream releases? It may be worth noting that trading characters isn't exactly abandoned. But this seems worth investigating.
Yeah, looks like the falling out between Nintendo and EA really fucked over some people's hard work.
It's been a while since the PS3 had late ports from Xbox 360, but Sony did promote the original Bioshock and Mass Effect 2 on their social media channels pretty heavily. Also worth noting those ports wouldn't have happened at all without some effort on Sony's part.
Sony and Microsoft both actively engage with third parties seeking mutually beneficial partnerships. Nintendo's strategy still seems to be stuck in their 90's mindset of "if we sell enough consoles, they'll have to put out games on our platform." It's a night and day difference.
SwiftDeath
Member
Way too many mods posted on the first page. I am terrified.
But wow that last post was a hilarious turn of events.
Nintendo really doesn't actively try to support 3rd parties very well do they?
But wow that last post was a hilarious turn of events.
Nintendo really doesn't actively try to support 3rd parties very well do they?
You asked a meaningless question asking for a specific example of MS or Sony supporting an old port its publisher wouldn't support when they have never needed to. The entire criticism I aimed at Nintendo was one regarding their image. They are the ones with an image problem, not MS or Sony. So yes, Nintendo is being criticized for not supporting the port as it was one of the few examples of a third party game having any effort actually being put into it, again, with no regard to their image. When a platform provider is having major support issues, it behooves them to show some care in how they treat properties that actually do get released and have effort put into them.
How big of a marketing campaign do you feel would have been adequate for Most Wanted U? How many extra sales do you think said campaign would have generated? How many additional sales do you think would have made EA and other third parties reconsider? Keep in mind this is the same EA that gave preferential treatment to Microsoft for the pre-180 Xbox One.
Like I said earlier, the conditions that would've actually improved the fate of this port beyond a meaningless (in the grand scheme of things) extra 50-100k in sales should've been in place well before the Wii U even launched. Throwing money at this game after the fact accomplishes nothing.
AgentOtaku
Member
Shit QA though
Mine crashed/locked up probably 3/5 play sessions. Happened frequently enough that I was forced to sell it back to Amazon cause I knew for damn sure it wasn't getting a patch.