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[nib95]

Hmm, doesn't make much sense really....


Unoptimized games will run better on the system with more raw horsepower. Games will run better by brute force.

PCs will be the lead platform and what we should expect the game to look like (Original quality developers intended) while the consoles will try to replicate this quality as best as they can... Are you suggesting Xbox One is more capable of replicating the PC then PS4 despite the PS4 having more horsepower and being easier to program... or are you just setting up a backdoor to run out in case you're wrong about the power difference?

I'm saying it depends entirely on development schedules, priorities etc. For example, a few games have been shown off on the Xbox One more than the PS4 and vice versa, likely due to marketing deals. In these instances, because demo versions of the said games have had to have been prettied and polished for public showcase on these certain platforms, I'd imagine those platforms will have had more emphasis and tender loving care at this early stage. At a point where neither has had nearly the amount of time and optimisation ideally required, and that will be quicker to do and more efficient going forward.

It's not even a back door, developers themselves have said as much.

HipHop Gamer interview with Geomerics (Enlighten/BF4) developer Pt 2/3 (PS4/XO)

Notice two of the points he brings up as mentioned in my summary...

- You won't really start to see differences between the PS4 and Xbox One till later on
- As it will take time for people to extract more from the hardware of both

 

[lazydom]

Which 3rd party games have been shown off more on xbox one?

 

[Cyborg]

Realy 20 pages? Couldnt the first post be "wait and see" and thread locked

 

[panda-zebra]

- You won't really start to see differences between the PS4 and Xbox One till later on
- As it will take time for people to extract more from the hardware of both

It will take more time for devs to extract additional unique power unique to each platform, but in the beginning it's going to be all about the easy to access raw power of the stronger platform. Save multi-platform devs throwing more resources at the xbox one versions of titles in order to reach parity, the ps4 versions should perform better (although not necessarily in an all too noticeable way or one that leaves the one version appearing broken somehow).

Having said that, to begin with things might go the way of the early days of the ST vs Amiga - for multiplats, the bar might just get set attainably low with little to see in the way of differences. Later on, as this bar is set higher and higher, the Amiga(ps4)'s custom hardware will allow the games to shine - larger resolution, greater fidelity. Occasionally the odd game will run better on the ST(One) due to a very slightly faster CPU clock, but it'll be rare and limited to a very narrow set of conditions (the odd 3d game on ST being faster due to 8mhz vs 7.2 or whatever).

Which 3rd party games have been shown off more on xbox one?

I can't even think of anything shown on both platforms, let alone where you could then directly compare them.

 

[Biker19]

Begging for a banning at this point. Goes right back to the ignorance where he has been proven wrong like 10 times now.

Call the Bish cause he is ruining this thread...

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised that buenoblue hasn't been banned yet, either.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised that buenoblue hasn't been banned yet, either.

No matter how wrong/obnoxious a poster is, i find it rather harsh for people to start calling out for them to get banned... it just seems... rather low, if the mods catch them then they'll be the ones to make a decision... no need to start picking up pitchforks.

 

[Melchiah]

Remember how a shit ton of games were going to be exclusive to Xbox One in May according to the Xbox One anticipation threads?

Microsoft decided they don't need it, they just pay 20% of the already agreed upon exclusive price to make the PS4 version perform worse.

So, if a 3rd party game performs the same on both, or better on XB1, we'll know they've been bought? The EA multiplat comparisons would probably be a comedy goldmine.

 

[Skeff]

I don't remember any multiplats being shown on xb1, even at the cod ghosts multiplayer reveal sponsored by xb1 they were using pc builds. And bf4 with xb1 timed content was shown to ign on ps4 not xb1.

Edit: BF4 at xbox one conference was pc build too

 

[Melchiah]

I don't remember any multiplats being shown on xb1, even at the cod ghosts multiplayer reveal sponsored by xb1 they were using pc builds. And bf4 with xb1 timed content was shown to ign on ps4 not xb1.

What I meant was that, if there really was such a diabolical scheme at work, I think EA would be a likely candidate of being involved in it.

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't remember any multiplats being shown on xb1, even at the cod ghosts multiplayer reveal sponsored by xb1 they were using pc builds. And bf4 with xb1 timed content was shown to ign on ps4 not xb1.

Edit: BF4 at xbox one conference was pc build too

Yeah, we've only seen the launch exclusives running on Xbox One. Everything else so far has been PS4 and PC. Titanfall hasn't even been shown on XBO and that's a game being touted as it's biggest "exclusive".

 

[Skeff]

What I meant was that, if there really was such a diabolical scheme at work, I think EA would be a likely candidate of being involved in it.

Oops yea my bad, it was asked toward nib as he was talking about polishing demos so that was confusing from me, sorry. Also I now think he may be talking about next years stuff which would make more sense

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, we've only seen the launch exclusives running on Xbox One. Everything else so far has been PS4 and PC. Titanfall hasn't even been shown on XBO and that's a game being touted as it's biggest "exclusive".

Funniest thing about the have you seen Titanfall meme is, as far as I know, no one in the press has seen it running on Xbox 1.

 

[10k]

Oops yea my bad, it was asked toward nib as he was talking about polishing demos so that was confusing from me, sorry. Also I now think he may be talking about next years stuff which would make more sense

I'll polish off your demo anytime

My opinion still stands, multiplats will look the same for 95% of the games. And I still think the XB1 will be the lead platform for western developers with Japan preferring the PS4 to start from.

 

[Curufinwe]

There's no reason to believe either off those things.

 

[TheRealTalker]

the city scene in killzone is not being rendered in realtime, as in you couldn't jump out before your allowed and run around. it's a trick to give the impression of scale, there are no other game elements ie aI, realtime shadows etc. I'd be surprised if it wasn't just a ingame engine cutscene segwayed into actual gameplay, like you know what they did on the last 2 killzones and the uncharted games. if they could render a city in such fidelity in realtime why would they have the actual gameplay in such a closed off banal tiny space? hmm I wonder.

Spoiler

kinda late to the show but people where showing the wireframe demonstration so I just wanted to show this portion

 

[TheKayle]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

this is highly likely what will happen at least is what i think will happen

 

[fastford58]

this is highly likely what will happen at least is what i think will happen

You think a lot of things.

 

[Conciliator]

Ultimately we'll very likely have something very similar to the current gen, which is multiplats are comparable or sometimes somewhat better looking on either console due to any number of variables, and after a few years a fair(but not inarguable) case could be made that the best looking games overall are a handful of PS4 exclusives.

EDIT: Looking at what we're getting out of the gate, I'd say Infamous and Killzone are the best looking games visually speaking, but stuff like Titanfall and Forza still look phenomenal. The difference is incremental, hardly night & day.

 

[Prince Vultan]

Funniest thing about the have you seen Titanfall meme is, as far as I know, no one in the press has seen it running on Xbox 1.

Wow, really?

I know it was the PC version at the E3 announcement, but has the game still not been shown on Xbone yet?

 

[Melchiah]

Oops yea my bad, it was asked toward nib as he was talking about polishing demos so that was confusing from me, sorry. Also I now think he may be talking about next years stuff which would make more sense

No problem, I could have worded it better.

 

[RoboPlato]

Wow, really?

I know it was the PC version at the E3 announcement, but has the game still not been shown on Xbone yet?

Only PC with XBO controller so far. PC is the only platform it's been shown on.

 

[velociraptor]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

I think this will only be true if both consoles have virtually identical specs with a similar GPU processing power. But based on what we already know, they don't. Hint: One is more powerful than the other.

Honestly, I just can't wait until both consoles are released. I also want a full specification breakdown from the Xbox One as there is too much speculation and misinformation.

 

[Skeff]

X-Post from another thread

Adrian Chmielarz
@adrianchm

One of The Astronauts [http://www.theastronauts.com ]. Former Creative Director @ People Can Fly [Gears of War Judgment | Bulletstorm | Painkiller].

interesting....Thought it would be very applicable to this thread.

 

[MrToughPants]

Add some fuel to the fire

Beaten!

50% difference is hyuge especially on launch titles..

 

[gruenel]

So we have this tweet by Chmielarz claiming all AAA devs he talks to say PS4 is 50% faster. We have multiple insiders here who have talked to developers at E3/Gamescom who said there is a huge performance difference. We have renowned websites like heise saying the same.

Need for Speed devs actually came out and said that one console version of their game will look better than the other, retweeted by yosp.

Yet some people still believe in X1 secret sauce and that there won't be any difference because Penello and Hryb say so. The amount of denial is mind blowing.

These people will now claim MS just hasn't told devs about the 2nd GPU yet I guess?

It won't end until the first DF faceoffs, and it will be a bloodbath.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

So we have this tweet by Chmielarz claiming all AAA devs he talks to say PS4 is 50% faster. We have multiple insiders here who have talked to developers at E3/Gamescom who said there is a huge performance difference. We have renowned websites like heise saying the same.

Need for Speed devs actually came out and said that one console version of their game will look better than the other, retweeted by yosp.

Yet some people still believe in X1 secret sauce and that there won't be any difference because Penello and Hryb say so. The amount of denial is mind blowing.

These people will now claim MS just hasn't told devs about the 2nd GPU yet I guess?

It won't end until the first DF faceoffs, and it will be a bloodbath.

I really hope it doesn't drag on, the PS4 is more powerful. Fact.

 

[Rengoku]

Let me preface this by saying I'm no expert in this field, but I'd like to bring up an observation.

With current gen multiplatform games, we see many developers resorting to sub-720p resolutions in order to keep some kind of parity performance wise between the 360 and PS3 versions. I'd say a large percentage of gamers probably can't tell the difference between sub-720p and full 720p. Its mostly with the help of the B3D community of pixel counters that we're able to figure out the true resolution of some of these multiplatform games.

With this next generation of 1080p games, I'd say its pretty much guaranteed that some devs will resort to dialing down the game's resolution in order maintain performance parity between systems. Except this time, it becomes even harder for gamers to tell the difference between sub-1080p vs full 1080p. In addition to that, we also have much more advanced forms of antialiasing techniques than previous gen.

So lets say we have these two scenarios:

Scenario A
PS4 Version - 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels per frame
XB1 Version (upscaled to 1080p) - 1440 x 1080 = 1,555,200 pixels per frame
In this scenario, PS4 has to push 33% more pixels per frame.

Scenario B
PS4 Version - 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels per frame
XB1 Version (upscaled to 1080p) - 1280 x 1080 = 1,382,400 pixels per frame
In this scenario, PS4 has to push 50% more pixels per frame.

If we then add whatever the latest state of the art anti-aliasing techniques to both versions of the game, what's the likelihood that your average gamer will be able to tell the difference? Side by side, perhaps scenario B's resolution discrepancy might be more jarring.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

 

[qa_engineer]

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Not sure why people are still clinging onto wizard jizz. Stop fighting facts with moving goal posts and semantics

 

[gruenel]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

So you're saying the NfS and CoD devs (and a few others) lied when they said their games will look better on PS4? Why would they do that?

 

[Melchiah]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

If the effects are already in place in the PC version, it shouldn't be a big problem to implement them on the console, that can run them.

 

[Zornack]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

Yeah, just like how PC ports these days don't add anything and are indistinguishable from their console counterparts.

Wait...

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

That would make sense if it weren't for the fact that nearly every 360 multi-platform game looked/ran noticeably better than the PS3 version. Same for Xbox/PS2. PS1/Saturn. SNES/Genesis. Every gaming console ever/Its counterpart(s).

 

[Skeff]

Let me preface this by saying I'm no expert in this field, but I'd like to bring up an observation.

With current gen multiplatform games, we see many developers resorting to sub-720p resolutions in order to keep some kind of parity performance wise between the 360 and PS3 versions. I'd say a large percentage of gamers probably can't tell the difference between sub-720p and full 720p. Its mostly with the help of the B3D community of pixel counters that we're able to figure out the true resolution of some of these multiplatform games.

With this next generation of 1080p games, I'd say its pretty much guaranteed that some devs will resort to dialing down the game's resolution in order maintain performance parity between systems. Except this time, it becomes even harder for gamers to tell the difference between sub-1080p vs full 1080p. In addition to that, we also have much more advanced forms of antialiasing techniques than previous gen.

So lets say we have these two scenarios:

Scenario A
PS4 Version - 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels per frame
XB1 Version (upscaled to 1080p) - 1440 x 1080 = 1,555,200 pixels per frame
In this scenario, PS4 has to push 33% more pixels per frame.

Scenario B
PS4 Version - 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels per frame
XB1 Version (upscaled to 1080p) - 1280 x 1080 = 1,382,400 pixels per frame
In this scenario, PS4 has to push 50% more pixels per frame.

If we then add whatever the latest state of the art anti-aliasing techniques to both versions of the game, what's the likelihood that your average gamer will be able to tell the difference? Side by side, perhaps scenario B's resolution discrepancy might be more jarring.

I think side by side gamers would notice, they wouldn't know any specifics but they'd be looking at them and saying things like "do they look different to you?" or "this one looks a bit better" they wouldn't be able to name the resolution difference.

The more likely though is frame rate drops, which are noticeable more to the public, in particular on 30fps games, if a game hits 30fps locked on both but then lots of things are happening in a scene the game could slow down to 20-25 fps, which almost all gamers would know, whether they described it as frame rate drop or "just a bit jumpy" they'd notice that, But whats a 50% improvement on 20-25fps? it's 30-37.5 fps, so it would remain locked.

I'm not saying there will be a 50% frame rate boost, i'm just pointing out a 50% frame rate boost would be more important than resolution boost.

 

[TheContact]

You won't be able to tell the difference. Trust me

 

[DBT85]

No matter how powerful these consoles are there is no gain for developers to add additional effects to one or the other platform. The only benefits will be for first parties titles and those wont have any comparison on the other platform...

There is also nothing to lose.

 

[ElTorro]

I think this post deserves to be rescued from its now closed original thread.

I think Adrian should jump into the conversation. He does it all the time in his blogs.

Here I am. So...

1. I am not doing a damage control, but I do want to clarify one thing. But first, yes, devs I know -- and as someone has shown it before in this thread, some other devs already talked about it too -- claim that there's 50% speed difference WHEN DEVELOPING in cross-gen/next-gen PS4/XO games. So there we are, I said it and I stand by it. Notice: WHEN DEVELOPING. It'll become clear in a second.

2. Will this change in the future? WIll devs discover some tricks to narrow the gap? Will stuff like XO cloud computing help? Hell if I know. Uhm, maybe? I know that devs -- well, most of them -- will do whatever they can do get you the best games possible. You're going to see a lot of multiplatform games this next gen, just as you've seen them in this gen, so it's in studios' best interest that there's no clear advantage in one version over the other.

3. Does it mean studios will cripple PS4 versions to match XO ones? Not really, do not underestimate the devs. Even if this happens, you will not know that and that's okay. You've never seen most games in their most powerful form anyway (when we work on them on our ninja dev PCs in 1080p 120fps with all the antialiasings and stuff turned on for shits and giggles). But most of the time devs have a target and they meet this target. If it's a multiplatform game, it's designed with this in mind from the start. So maybe it's not maxing out one console while going 100% on the other. Maybe it's 100% on both, but they take extra time for super-extra optimizations on the weaker hardware to make sure things look the same as on the more powerful platform. Etc. etc.

4. So what is that "one thing" I want to clarify, that some people may consider "damage control", but really is just an explanation. Someone mentioned Titanfall, which looks money and enjoys a great hype. Exactly. A great dev will make a great game no matter what's the hardware. Current gen CoDs looks great and it's 60 fps, on both platforms (well, and PC . To most devs that is just impossible to achieve. And yet...

Think about it this way. X360 is faster than PS3. Not just easier to program on, it's faster overall (although PS is faster/better in SOME areas). And yet no exclusive on X360 looks like The Last of Us. Halo 4 looks great. Gears blew my mind in 2006. And still, the best looking AAA game of this generation belongs to the supposedly weaker platform.

So if you think that the war is over because PS4 is 50% faster TODAY, then you're delusional. This is far from over, and will probably never be over, at least not this upcoming gen.

 

[BRocknRolla]

X-Post from another thread

Adrian Chmielarz
@adrianchm

One of The Astronauts [http://www.theastronauts.com ]. Former Creative Director @ People Can Fly [Gears of War Judgment | Bulletstorm | Painkiller].

interesting....Thought it would be very applicable to this thread.

That's... surprising, I think. I think it seems highly unlikely that we'll see any of that difference in the first wave of games because most of these titles are split-gen, and let's be real that devs are not going to give a damn about making the next-gen versions really push things, but down the road it would make a big difference. If anything, I wonder if it means MS will have to put in a lot of work to help devs get power out of the system given the slightly odd memory architecture and lesser GPU. But who knows I suppose. I do think it's surprising to see someone who might theoretically know some things say this in public though.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I think this post deserves to be rescued from its now closed original thread.

He's basically saying everything we've been saying for a while.

The PS4 is more powerful/capable.

Devs may or may not take full advantage of that power.

Even if they do take advantage, the extra power doesn't automatically mean better games.

 

[Biker19]

If the effects are already in place in the PC version, it shouldn't be a big problem to implement them on the console, that can run them.

Yeah, just like how PC ports these days don't add anything and are indistinguishable from their console counterparts.

Wait...

That would make sense if it weren't for the fact that nearly every 360 multi-platform game looked/ran noticeably better than the PS3 version. Same for Xbox/PS2. PS1/Saturn. SNES/Genesis. Every gaming console ever/Its counterpart(s).

These. Anyone that seriously believes that most PS4 versions of games won't be much better than XB1 versions of games are delusional as dirt.

 

[Skeff]

You won't be able to tell the difference. Trust me

Don't suppose you've got any kind of reasoning for this? care to discuss it a little why you don't think we won't be able to tell the difference?

 

[Vire]

Y2Kev why you gotta be like that, why you gotta close my thread?

 

[Finalizer]

Since I was asleep during THE HAPPENING before, guess I'll post the obligatory reaction image here:

But seriously, like others have said, his tweets only reaffirm what's already well known: there's a notable power gap between the consoles. The only real question that remains is to what extent, if at all, 3rd party developers will utilize that extra power in general.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

The other thread would have been closed for a reason.