Hunter-Zero
Member
This has to be a joke...right?
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How much different will X1 and PS4 multiplats be visually?
- Thread starter RayMaker
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The most impressive footage we have of Killzone is multiplayer. We haven't really seen any cutscenes.
Gemüsepizza
Member
What in-game cutscenes?
Direct X is not an advantage. One of the reasons PS3 first party titles were ahead of the curve vs 360 ones despite a GPU deficit was because of low level coding not constrained by such APIs. It also should be mentioned that Sony's new shader language specific to the PS4 is supposedly more feature rich than both OpenGL and Direct X. It lines up with what some devs have said, that is that Sony's development tools on the PS4 are currently more mature than the Xbox One's.
Your wrong, very wrong. Let's take this step by step.
Source for XB1 games all having dedicated servers? source for PS4 games not having dedicated server? oh you don't have any? because it's not actually true? oh ok then.
And the PS4's dedicated audio hardware?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-to-face-with-mark-cerny
Oh cool, where did sony announce the clock speed? I mean I know it was at 1.6 Mhz in January when the Killzone slideshow was made, but it also had 4gb GDDR5.
Oh really? mature toolset you say? you mean bloated and not applicable to the XB1? Also we have reports that the middleware is up to a surprisingly good standard and generally the PS4 API's are much better than the XB1's at the moment.
Killzone has 60fps Multiplayer and Driveclub is aiming for 60fps with about the same chance as Dead rising reaching 30fps.
Errrm what? any reason? I suppose if you mean balanced in the sense it won't fall over, though thats because you can't stand it on its side or it will melt. BTW with GPGPU being such an important feature this generation, I think you'll find "balanced" won't be applicable to the hardware in any way.
I;m buying both and so my opinion is obviously unbiased, True story.
In what way does it not seem true? Because as far as I'm aware, we haven't seen anything to directly compare, There has not been a single multiplatform shown on xbox one to anyone. At least we have had multi plats being shown on PS4 behind closed doors, which actually includes Battlefield 4 which has Exclusive content deal with Microsoft and featured at their conference (well the PC version featured at their conference)
You seem set on this, yet it is not true...source?
I tried to get something I agreed with you on, but there was nothing to salvage from that post.
iceatcs
Junior Member
I think we will see more visual difference rather than performance difference.
There isn't much to work the anti-aliasing and resolution if the engine have setting support.
Performance difference will be rare case like the current gen. I'm sure it will require more time to work.
There isn't much to work the anti-aliasing and resolution if the engine have setting support.
Performance difference will be rare case like the current gen. I'm sure it will require more time to work.
hey, hey,hey
I noticed X1 camp now diving into details in order to try to find any advantages for X1, OK lets see:
PS4 has way better GPU than X1*
PS4 has the better memory setup than X1**
PS4 has dedicated Audio chip just like X1 minus the resource hog which is Kinect.
PS4 has 9% slower CPU clock (UNCONFIRMED)
PS4 is hUMA/HSA compatible (Maximum efficiency) X1 not as efficient at all.
* Has more CUs 18 vs 12 in X1
Has 8 ACE/ 64 Queues vs 2 ACE / 16 Queues in X1
Has 1152 shaders vs 768 in X1
Has 72 Texture Units vs 48 in X1
** GDDR5 has 3x the amount of bandwidth (unified and accessible)
So the difference is 40% going up in favor of PS4, how much this is going to affect games is yet to be seen BUT the gap is there and it's much bigger than PS3/360,
I noticed X1 camp now diving into details in order to try to find any advantages for X1, OK lets see:
PS4 has way better GPU than X1*
PS4 has the better memory setup than X1**
PS4 has dedicated Audio chip just like X1 minus the resource hog which is Kinect.
PS4 has 9% slower CPU clock (UNCONFIRMED)
PS4 is hUMA/HSA compatible (Maximum efficiency) X1 not as efficient at all.
* Has more CUs 18 vs 12 in X1
Has 8 ACE/ 64 Queues vs 2 ACE / 16 Queues in X1
Has 1152 shaders vs 768 in X1
Has 72 Texture Units vs 48 in X1
** GDDR5 has 3x the amount of bandwidth (unified and accessible)
So the difference is 40% going up in favor of PS4, how much this is going to affect games is yet to be seen BUT the gap is there and it's much bigger than PS3/360,
buenoblue
Member
That's what's so clever. The very first reveal of killzone sf had that fly by over the city, all rendered in the ingame engine. It looked stunning but was non interactive, thus a cutscene on rails section. The actual controllable gameplay looked nowhere near as graphically pleasing. It's all smoke and mirrors that killzone 3 and uncharted used very effectively.
Chobel
Member
Well, I have bad news for you... the highlighted part is not true.
There are other ridiculous things in your comment, but I guess the comments before me cover most those.
What the hell are you talking about dude. That entire segment is in game and real time. The actual gameplay looks exactly the same, and if you watch the extended developer video, after they get off the copter they look around the landing and admire the city in the distance.
And if you actually paid any attention, the entire second half of the demo is a fly by action segment where you travel through the city. So it's not in accessible as you claim at all.
What the hell is it with some of these juniors lately...
EDIT: Oh and one other thing. The graphics have actually improved since the E3 demo as proven by the multiplayer reveal. GG has already confirmed as much. So the next time we see that city level, expect it to look better not worse. Character models, lighting, textures etc.
So, your going to continue posting FUD without addressing the post's that pointed out you were wrong with almost everything you said.
Nice discussion.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Sony and Nintendo handled themselves well since 06 without the same 3rd party support. Definitely overstated impact. (Assuming Sony can't compete)
Now you're just trolling. GG have already released a presentation on this.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Bullshit. Please explain precisely in technical terms what was so stunning about the first few minutes and what was lacking in the part after that.
Please stop, you're making my head hurt with this stupidity.
That section was all real time and the entire city was actual geometry.
buenoblue
Member
I honestly believe ps4 on paper is more powerful than x1 overall. Trouble is sonys first party titles at launch are looking very average graphically and are running at low frame rates so what gives. Yeah dead rising 3 is running at 30fps, but that is on inferior hardware. What I'm trying to say is ps4 should be showing a very clear graphical advantage over the x1, hell I want it to cause I'm getting one and want the best for my money, but to me it's not showing a clear graphical advantage so I'm not gonna give it a free ride cause its cool to bash xbox.
I agree with the GPU and mostly the memory part. The audio chip of X1 seems to be in another league compared to the one in the PS4 (DSP effect processing). The huma/HSA part probably still holds some surprises for X1. But I'm not 100% sure on that.
Nevertheless - this kind of discussion is exhausting for everyone. We will have to wait and see. In the end, everybody will get great games. (Especially those that get both consoles)
And people claiming KZ looks mediocre, lie to themselves.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Just a guess, but I imagine that most mutiplats will be at parity, with maybe one of the consoles having less framerate dips than the other.
For mutiplats, you can't lose with either console.
For mutiplats, you can't lose with either console.
I don't give a flying fuck what you think of graphical quality in comparison to X1. You labelling things prerendered when they're not is what you're being called out on.
ok let's do this again:
Opinion stated as fact, an opinion not very many people agree with as well.
I don't consider 60 FPS low framerates which is what Killzone MP, Resogun and more are running at and what Driveclub is targetting.
No it isn't Dead Rising 3 is running at around 25fps with dips down to around 15fps.
In many peoples opinions, it is, in yours it is not, nice that you conside your opinion as fact though. Personally I haven't seen anything on XB1 in even the same ballpark as Infamous and the Dark sorcerer, Both of which have been shown running on PS4 kits either with gameplay for Infamous or Real time in engine and interactive like the Dark sorcerer demo.
I'm buying one, not biased, true story.
Dat persecution complex, feel bad for you Bro.
Chobel
Member
Something doesn't need to be "groundbreaking" to look nice.
Killzone is by no means "mediocre" visually and is still pretty impressive on a technical level.
You see nothing groundbreaking visually with KZ SF yet the game looks so good you assume (wrongly) parts of the game that are real time and in game are instead pre rendered cut scenes.
What a joke.
people started posting that X1 somehow will manage to negate the 40% theoretical power difference through efficient design and small clock pump ignoring the FACT that PS4 can make the gap even bigger by being easier to dev for and utilizing AMD hUMA setup + GPGPU calculations. X1 is NOT hUMA compatible at all thanks to eSRAM that go against the whole idea of hUMA.
XboxOne has SHAPE block which include an Audio chip but don't forget that Kinect is part of the system, Shape is made primarily to handle Kinect extensive voice commands. PS4 in the other hand is already free from Kinect burden, so it uses an Audio chip to handle mp3 streams. PS4 also have decoders/encoders for video work just to free CPU/GPU powers ( it seems like PS4 encoders are more capable than that in X1 evidence 15 minutes vs 7 minutes video recording capabilities), but seems like nobody's actually taking this into consideration.
I want to ask, is it DSProcessor (signal's digital treatment, like filtering/analyzing for voice recognition... Kinect) or DSProcessing (sounds effect, stereo enhancer)?
Because Shape looked to be the former to me, and so i never understood what's the "thing" about it.
(edit: i said this bullshit and i'm not proud of myself).
Okay, so Shape is actually a joke? It's just dedicated hardware needed for Kinect.
This past generation, difference between both consoles maybe around 5% (speculation on my part), so many people were championing 360's superior "definite" versions of multiplats. If you saw some DF faceoffs and you were solely a ps3 owner, you couldn't help but feel bad, as practically every port would be considered worse, going from slightly inferior to complete fuck ups such as Skyrim, Fallout, Bayonetta,
Then there were all those games that, while not being unplayable, suffered from resolution, AA and fps problems: GTAIV, RDR. 360 was better and that wasn't even debatable, the difference was huuuuge.
Now the gap is wider, a lot wider, and suddenly nothing of this matters. It will be negligible, apparently. This is what I can't understand. Many come with the excuse that since the architectures are so similar this time, all the kinks will be worked out and the games will look/perform the same, and I think that is the main reason why they won't. I look at this like I would on the PC world.If I don't change anything on my game settings, and switch to a better gpu I'm gonna have better fps with no effort.
Given the fact that they both share so many similarities, with the ps4 having a better GPU (by a long shot) and a much better RAM solution, one would assume that the extra performance will come at no extra cost. In fact, the developers themselves would have to cap the framerate to achieve parity. Isn't that extra work just to sabotage their own product?
You can say that if the game is already running at locked 1080p/60fps there isn't much to improve. In those cases yes, I believe the improvements will be harder to notice but will still be there. If the game struggles to maintain 30fps on the X1 I fully expect it to be rock solid on the ps4, with some less pop in and Vsynch to boot.
That is not an unreasonable expectation considering the power gap between both gpus.
Then there were all those games that, while not being unplayable, suffered from resolution, AA and fps problems: GTAIV, RDR. 360 was better and that wasn't even debatable, the difference was huuuuge.
Now the gap is wider, a lot wider, and suddenly nothing of this matters. It will be negligible, apparently. This is what I can't understand. Many come with the excuse that since the architectures are so similar this time, all the kinks will be worked out and the games will look/perform the same, and I think that is the main reason why they won't. I look at this like I would on the PC world.If I don't change anything on my game settings, and switch to a better gpu I'm gonna have better fps with no effort.
Given the fact that they both share so many similarities, with the ps4 having a better GPU (by a long shot) and a much better RAM solution, one would assume that the extra performance will come at no extra cost. In fact, the developers themselves would have to cap the framerate to achieve parity. Isn't that extra work just to sabotage their own product?
You can say that if the game is already running at locked 1080p/60fps there isn't much to improve. In those cases yes, I believe the improvements will be harder to notice but will still be there. If the game struggles to maintain 30fps on the X1 I fully expect it to be rock solid on the ps4, with some less pop in and Vsynch to boot.
That is not an unreasonable expectation considering the power gap between both gpus.
I'm not going into the huma thing again. It was discussed lengthy here. X1 has some of benefits of huma but doesn't completely satisfy AMDs definition so far. As I said, the SHAPE does loads more than just Kinect stuff. As I said, it can process reverbs and other effects without hassling the CPU. This is not possible on the PS4.
The duration of recording video is no evidence of any decoder capability - this is more a storage issue. x1 decoders can decode 2 fullHD streams in parallel. But this is not really a gaming advantage. TV stuff...
buenoblue
Member
If you can't see the tricks with ingame engine higher quality rendered cutscenes then that's good, cause once you know it's like cg in films, a let down.
@nib95
I've bin gaming since zx spectrum days and have owned pretty much every popular(and not so popular) computer and console since, culminating in my beloved i7 gtx 780 100inch 3d projector setup. So I may be a junior member on gaf but am a veteran gamer entitled to my opinion just as much as you or any other gamer.
@nib95
I've bin gaming since zx spectrum days and have owned pretty much every popular(and not so popular) computer and console since, culminating in my beloved i7 gtx 780 100inch 3d projector setup. So I may be a junior member on gaf but am a veteran gamer entitled to my opinion just as much as you or any other gamer.
Veteran gamer or not you're flat out ignorant and misinformed on this whole subject. The segment you speak of is not a rendered cut scene. This has been mentioned and proven already.
What you're saying isn't an opinion. It's objectively wrong.
Source? You think it's not possible, or is it indeed not possible? #Truthfacts or not #Truthfacts?
The more i'm reading, the more i'm seeing FUD.
3rdamention
Member
Instead of making even more ignorant statements, why dont you address the multiple comments that ripped apart any validity your previous ignorant statements had? Im sure you noticed you were totally wrong on about every claim you made.
You really are making yourself look ridiculous but Im smart enough to know exactly what you are doing. Troll on young soldier troll on.
Oh by the way, Guerilla Games has already presented a Tech Presentation of the EXACT flyover scene you claim is CG. It shows all the statistics within that scene, the lighting techniques, the geometry of each building from the wireframe out, and dozens of other factors explaining just how they have that scene generated and running in real time, every time. I would link it, but you would ignore it and continue to spout more uninformed info as you have after everyone else has already proven you wrong.
And you cannot claim you are just sharing your opinions when you tell everyone else their facts are wrong. Pretty embarassing for you to be a gamer as long as you claim yet to be so ignorant about games.
Just had to get that off my chest before you get banned for trolling.
buenoblue
Member
Yes you get more fps from a better gpu, but you also get better fps from a CPU. When I upgraded my CPU from core2quad to i7 my fps doubled with the same cpu. If x1 does have a significant cpu advantage of up to 30% ( big if) then this could place it in the ballpark to compete with ps4.
What you're saying isn't something that's a subjective opinion, it's objectively wrong.
Man, I've never had a drop of alcohol in my life but this thread makes me feel like I need a drink.
lol! Who made this? Great stuff!
There needs to be a thread created to show off (and vote on) the all time best gif's. I'd nominate the above.
lol awesome
I wouldn't describe Shape as a joke at all, but I believe it's mainly there to handle Kinect voice commands which is pretty extensive ( remember that OG Kinect was supposed to ship with SHAPE block inside but MS removed it due to cost) now SHAPE is inside X1.
Nothing I've read about the audio block suggests this functionality. If it would be capable of doing such things, Cerny would've mentioned it the often quoted interview. So no - I don't have any proof. My wording was too #truthfact-like.
Just to prove that KZ:SF is not pre-rendered: in this tech-demo, the guy from Guerilla paused the game, went into wireframe mode and flew around the city.
I'm bored today.
I'm bored today.
More efficient/powerful CPU architecture != Faster clocked CPU of the same architecture.
A clock speed difference of ~150Mhz is negligible.
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