It's fair to assume this new tech might give a better experience than you had 16 years ago.
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John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware (gamesindustry.biz)
- Thread starter onQ123
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It's fair to assume this new tech might give a better experience than you had 16 years ago.
Dark Octave
Banned
I wonder what he was expecting, for next gen systems to come bundled with VR headsets?
Of course we will get everything that has ever come from a true next gen machine. More polys, bigger textures, smoother animations, capacity for better AI, better effects and whatever other extras they decide to throw in.
Of course we will get everything that has ever come from a true next gen machine. More polys, bigger textures, smoother animations, capacity for better AI, better effects and whatever other extras they decide to throw in.
I heard VR is bad for eyes. I mean it's basically watching a screen at 5 centimeters distance.
Anyway the last console gen brought online and motion controls to mainstream. The next gen should have been some mind-reading tech to match it. All hardware advances work only for a very narrow audience which still somehow consider gaming being their exclusive hobby.
Anyway the last console gen brought online and motion controls to mainstream. The next gen should have been some mind-reading tech to match it. All hardware advances work only for a very narrow audience which still somehow consider gaming being their exclusive hobby.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Yeah... in 1996, games gave me a headache even without a headset.
Projectjustice
Banned
Im not surprised, next gen leap isnt gonna be as big as lot of posters here think its going to be.
Poimandres
Member
Probably only going to be Doom 4 and whatever Machinegames is making. I wonder if id will have a new engine for next gen, or pump out another tech 5 game?
BUT it is limited to whatever studios Zenimax owns. That means it will never and could never be widespread.
Of course, the number of games developed using the tech in no way reflects on the capabilities of the tech itself.
Doesnt surprise me one bit, specially since the dude is mainly a PC developer. He tried to work around the limitations of consoles with Rage and that obviously tickled his programming bone. Next-gen would allow him to make that game the way he wanted to make it, where's the fun in that.
To me, that's what he's saying. It's not really new technology, just better and closer to what PCs already do. Carmack is driven by challenges, he's obviously way above and beyond what most people find intriguing.
Dude builds fuckin rockets and sends them to SPACE
To me, that's what he's saying. It's not really new technology, just better and closer to what PCs already do. Carmack is driven by challenges, he's obviously way above and beyond what most people find intriguing.
Dude builds fuckin rockets and sends them to SPACE
Joe Molotov
Member
He gets turned on by developing for iOS though.
Unregistered007
Banned
This guy fucking does not matter at all now.
With all respect, RAGE as a game sucked and shipped with no AA on consoles.
The PC version had it own share of issues.
Carmack saying "not impressed by next gen consoles" = NO ONE GIVES A RATS ASS.
Move along people.
With all respect, RAGE as a game sucked and shipped with no AA on consoles.
The PC version had it own share of issues.
Carmack saying "not impressed by next gen consoles" = NO ONE GIVES A RATS ASS.
Move along people.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Right. While dumb, young pups were starting to say he'd lost his edge, he was busy teaching himself aerospace engineering. (!)
evilromero
Member
We're never going to get Doom 4 are we?
Joe Molotov
Member
Depends on whether we pass the Doom 3 HD test.
MrBelmontvedere
Member
no it's not. viewing a standard HDTV so close would indeed be bad for your eyes, but the brightness is greatly reduced for screens that are so close.
Haunted
Member
unbelievable
dragonflys545
Member
How has the Giantbomb Carmack interview not been posted in this thread yet?
http://www.giantbomb.com/e3-2012-john-carmack-interview/17-6164/
This was one of the coolest things shown at this years E3 yet it passed most people by.
It's also sad to see people talking shit about one of the great videogame innovators. This VR stuff has the potential to revolutionise the way we play games in a big way. For shame, Neogaf.
http://www.giantbomb.com/e3-2012-john-carmack-interview/17-6164/
This was one of the coolest things shown at this years E3 yet it passed most people by.
It's also sad to see people talking shit about one of the great videogame innovators. This VR stuff has the potential to revolutionise the way we play games in a big way. For shame, Neogaf.
Everyone that posted in this thread doesn't care.
Also what is up with everyone being all Average Game = Average Engine.
Carmack is my hero.
fuckin ROFL
I wouldn't necessary equates criticisms against him and his studio to be attempts to discredit him. I'd view them as ways to contextualize id's role in games industry today. I played RAGE and it was a solid title -- but nothing spectacular. The critics and sales numbers tend to agree with that assessment. If Carmack's view is truly "will let us do everything we want to do now, with the knobs turned up," then I seriously question id's success next-gen. Turning up RAGE's knobs would not have made it a success. Someone earlier mentioned id makes their engines then decides on a game (paraphrasing); I don't know if that's true, but that's what it feels like. "Not all that excited" is how I've felt about id games for a while now. I also love the straw-manning. Carmack is absolutely a genius on the technical side, but, that's the point -- how removed that is from game design and originality. Did megatextures make RAGE a good game? Of course Carmack isn't solely responsible for the success of the IP, but he is the face of that studio and that brand. Maybe id needs a shake up in their design department.
jediyoshi
Member
Interview containing >90% VR talk = Let's talk about Rage
Not his fault, take it up with Bethesda.
Not his fault, take it up with Bethesda.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I know this guy is very talented and all, but he hasn't made a good game since god knows when. He WAS "excited" for the current gen, and look what we got. So, whatever.
plagiarize
Banned
i love my Sony HMZs and use them a lot, but they have certain issues that have me looking to future iterations of the tech to solve. if these Carmack approved alternatives solve their low resolution problem, then i'd bite at $500, sure thing.
Rage engine is incredible tech. it just needed to ship on three blu-rays. my graphics card has enough memory! the game plays great too. 60 fps. no one beats iD at how fun it is to shoot their weapons imho. shooting in Rage was fantastic.
Rage engine is incredible tech. it just needed to ship on three blu-rays. my graphics card has enough memory! the game plays great too. 60 fps. no one beats iD at how fun it is to shoot their weapons imho. shooting in Rage was fantastic.
They were kings when games had to have solid gameplay and the story wasn't really that important. Even with a bigger focus on story, Rage showed me they still just don't get it.
Duckhuntdog
Member
Sounds like to me Carmack and Iwata would get along fine with their views on consoles and tech. But after reading Masters of Doom, my view on Carmack hit rock bottom.
Anticitizen One
Banned
When even John Carmack is not excited about next-gen hardware you know it's time to call it quits on gaming
are you nuts?
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Mostly sub-30 fps games developer wide this generation ?
The one guy who designed a great looking engine at 720p and 60fps on consoles not all excited about next gen hardware, does speak lots of next gen performance.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Ya and how much did those games sell? Where are they on the live top 20? Nowhere. Case closed.
IIRC the current hardware they're working with is still visibly low-rez. He estimated it'd take another year or two for higher resolution panels to be widely available.
Duckhuntdog
Member
As I mentioned in my post above, in reading Masters of Doom, Carmack more or less chased out everyone that wanted to do actual game design and attempted to take id in a more modern design oriented direction.
Heck even the few designers that left Retro for id, quickly left id after a few months because they couldn't mesh with his views.
I wouldn't take it that far, but, yeah. If you are the head of a "AAA" studio who makes its living on fully-fledged console/PC titles -- how can one not be excited? Especially, when, all things considered, your studio is doing alright.
John Carmack doesnt design id's games
you should get your facts straight before bitchin and talking about how important this guy is to the industry
Most developers agree virtual texturing is a very useful technique (and Rage shows it, being one of the most artistically accomplished titles ever), it is being adoptedb other titles, like Brink and Trials.
Duckhuntdog
Member
Only on Tuesdays. How about you?
abstract alien
Member
Yeah, the only thing I was excited about this gen was the wiimote and next gen about all I'm excited for is the Wii U Gamepad. MS and Sony are too sterile and predictable, so I'll be surprised if they do anything that gets me hyped.
Hardware and controller wise, anyway. I'm pretty much expecting another base retro controller connected to more horses. I highly doubt there is anything graphically that will surprise me, even on PC. Hope I eat a shit load of crow though.
Hardware and controller wise, anyway. I'm pretty much expecting another base retro controller connected to more horses. I highly doubt there is anything graphically that will surprise me, even on PC. Hope I eat a shit load of crow though.
What? Lol
abstract alien
Member
Dp
How much do you know exactly? He's the boss -- at least as far as the chain of command is concerned internally, right? He probably has the weight to green-light IPs and design choices. You can't excuse id's shortcomings by excusing Carmack. And, to a degree, the tech itself cannot be removed from design, no? You don't think Carmack deserves criticism?
Your post epitomizes the problem -- and Carmack's problem. If resolution and frames are your only points of comparison, how much does that really mean? It turns out that a lot of those sub-30fps games are really well-reviewed and have been met with commercial success.
Amen to that.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Okay, so sales stuff is sales-age, but talking console tech is a bit of another thing, especially in regards to a engine designer like Carmack, in which performance of next gen consoles is constantly in question.
plagiarize
Banned
i missed where you laid out your case. Rage's technology is groundbreaking and performs incredibly well. if anything its a little too ahead of its time. that it looks as good as it does on consoles with the tiny amount of memory they have is hard to believe at times.
the quality of Rage, or the sales of Rage are in no way any kind of reflection on how good a job he did building the graphics engine.
Tim Willits is the co owner with Todd Hollenshead (at least before they sold to Bethesda). and the creative director of Rage. John just wants to program, basically. be that large projects or small projects.
Well put.
Brofist
Member
It was no FFXIII that's for sure!!
shinobi602
Member
Fully agreed. Exactly how it should be.
Discounting the 720p, CoD franchise along with Forza/GT and most other sports games are all 60fps. They sold... in great numbers.
Tim Willits and Matt Hooper were the creative force behind RAGE. Carmack did nothing but design the engine and make the tools easy (super easy according to what's been said about id5) for the programmers, work on stability for consoles and such. Basically give the team the tools. His title is just "Technical Director"
Im sure he of course had some kind of input in the game, but enough to make or break the thing to those who dont like it? not at all
He deserves criticism in his short-comings, like not providing a better way to handle textures on PC since the game was obviously console-focused, but he tried new ways to make things work diferently and built all the tools he needed, he's always pushing limits.
Dont meant that in a bad way, but Carmack is all about pushing the edge of tech while Iwata has a different background and focuses on bringin interesting new ways of gameplay. Carmack does something completely different that falls more in line with bringing new alternative ways to move tech forward.
Todd Hollenshead, President
Tim Willits, Creative Director
John Carmack, Technical Director
Except they are? Hasn't Carmack stated multiple times he underestimated how much effort and time the engine would take? Wasn't RAGE in development for, like, 6+ years? And it was still met with relatively lukewarm reception on both ends. Imagine if RAGE had come out earlier this gen, the reception would have been the reserve and it would have looked significantly better than most 07/08 games. You can remove the tech from the game in discussion, but not in practice, right?
Edit: I like how I got the same post in different ways. Right. But I'd still say the game who designs your engine is a big player. id wouldn't be id without Carmack. Are id people on this forum? I'd be surprised if Carmack's input wasn't taken with as much consideration as the president's. Thanks, for the responses.