PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I was responding to a comment about gameplay. I think most consumers will be underwhelmed by the next gen graphic enhancements.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware (gamesindustry.biz)
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
I was responding to a comment about gameplay. I think most consumers will be underwhelmed by the next gen graphic enhancements.
I don't believe he can understand the personal offense some people take when he states his opinion on a topic.
"I don't find simple hardware upgrades all that interesting anymore. I would like something more."
"Oh yeah? Well your game is stupid and you smell like doodoo! Also, your new project is dumb and civilian space exploration is a joke."
Meanwhile, I hope we hear something about an HMZ T2 in the near future. There's tremendous room for improvement with that kit.
then the splinter cell devs must be wizards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPi69Tpn4RM
(if by lighting based you mean making flat textures look like they have dept)
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Carmack is starting to remind me of Prince - a damn near genius who can't seem to let go of the future the 90s promised that never happened.
Well, maybe that's giving Prince a bit too much credit.
Well, maybe that's giving Prince a bit too much credit.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The closest thing to that I've seen lately is Planetside 2. That game is nuts.Everybody wants to talk about gimmicky hardware and improvements to image quality and no one wants to talk about next gen gameplay
On topic, it's gonna tech a lot more than tech to make great games. I don't think VR is going to be viable until it's past the goofy helmet stage. They're probably going to have to find a way to pair it with Kinect style motion controls (that actually work). Playing VR with gamepads on a couch defeats the purpose.
how is it nuts? you still shoot stuff. yes, the area is big. So what?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's like a Halo MMO, except it's on the PC so the graphics are actually good. I'm excited.
quoting for the new page, very interesting.
Reallink
Member
HMD 3D gaming is fuckawesome all by itself, I can only imagine what it's like with a crazy FOV and motion tracking. I absolutely agree that next-gen needs to add something beyond looking like current PC games. I don't know if that something is an HMD or some type of flawless 1:1 motion control that actually works as we all imagined, but I definitely think it needs something beyond looking like Watchdogs or Star Wars.
but it's not nuts. You just like it.
I could understand "nuts" comment if terrain was fully deformable, buildings are fully destructible and you could dig tunnels and built fortifications and bases underground. And above the ground like in Starhawk.
So whos jumping on the Oculus Rift kickstarter Carmack was demo-ing in the Giant Bomb video? I am for sure!
http://oculusvr.com/?page_id=2
http://oculusvr.com/?page_id=2
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yea I think im gonna pass on VR helmets. My eyes are bad enough already.
And I'm pretty sure almost every generation since PS1 boils down to the same thing with the knobs turned up. That being said, games like 1313 and demos like Agnis and UE4 look better than anything out. Like alot better. You release a game with Agnis quality graphics and people will go nuts.
And I'm pretty sure almost every generation since PS1 boils down to the same thing with the knobs turned up. That being said, games like 1313 and demos like Agnis and UE4 look better than anything out. Like alot better. You release a game with Agnis quality graphics and people will go nuts.
jediyoshi
Member
intriguing, but do you still shoot dudes in that game?
demigod
Member
Alright, someone explain to me what the difference between VR and 3D is? I thought VR was like "virtual reality", where you play as yourself, not use a controller. Like 3D Kinect.
From the sound of it, his game seems to be exactly like 3D and nothing more. Why would anyone want to pay $600 for a headset and game when they can just buy a 27inch 3D Monitor for $650 about? Or a 1k 3D TV?
From the sound of it, his game seems to be exactly like 3D and nothing more. Why would anyone want to pay $600 for a headset and game when they can just buy a 27inch 3D Monitor for $650 about? Or a 1k 3D TV?
Immersion for one. For a simulation gamer like myself with that FOV and headtracking i'd be in heaven.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I'm not sure if VR is the future but all I know is that I want a good headset to play first person games with. The tech involved and the effect it has on isolating and focusing in on the senses seems like it would be retroactively beneficial to even old First Person games. The niggling point is it seems like a bit of a one trick pony in that its only really useful for games that are tailored towards this perspective.
What I'm trying to say is I want to play all the King's Field games with an HMD.
What I'm trying to say is I want to play all the King's Field games with an HMD.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Actually, if I'm remembering right, the lighting in Silent Hill 3 is incredibly similar to Doom 3. It's the shadowing and lack of a dedicated pixel shader that made Doom 3 impossible. Both used Stencil Shadows. But Doom 3 was also using Dot3 precision bumps or normals or something.
And generally had deeper contrasts.
Actually, the only other system that generation to feature a GPU that achieved Dot3 precision (aside from the Xbox) was the PVR2 in the Dreamcast. It just didn't have the "oomph" to make it feasible to use. If the years have been kind to my memory Dot 3 precision is the difference between altering on a pixel basis or being relegated to vertex.
My point was though that technically the PS2 could do it too, but there would be a complete lack of bump-mapping (unless standard emboss which wouldn't respond to lighting changes) but the lighting itself would be possible.
I've always felt that this needed to happen. I'm glad someone like Carmack agrees. Televisions are great as a conduit to passive mediums like film, but for interactive mediums like games, I've always felt the display technology had to be something more engaging. Like VR.
Props to Carmack for working diligently to get us closer to the Matrix. I wait for the day that consoles will ship with their own display technology. I get chills just imagining a horror or war game with VR.
Props to Carmack for working diligently to get us closer to the Matrix. I wait for the day that consoles will ship with their own display technology. I get chills just imagining a horror or war game with VR.
StoppedInTracks
Member
You cannot play Mario, God of War, Ratchet, Uncharted, Gears of War, Assassin's Creed etc. with a HMD. That thing is only for first person games no matter how awesome and futuristic it can be.
Yeah I share the same view. I'm pumped that Carmack is involved with all his technical expertise.
this would save consoles btw. If they had their proprietary VR helmets they would still be relevant no matter what other technologies are available on the market. It would be like 3D movies in cinemas with no 3D TVs available.
Reallink
Member
From what I understand, this device has head/motion tracking, so moving your head actually looks around in the game etc... Secondly, this device fills pretty much your entire field of view. Thirdly monitors/TV's are almost universally crap for 3D due to crosstalk, loss of light output, and just general shit image quality in 3D. Head mounted displays have a separate screen for each eye, so there is no crosstalk, no loss of light output, and no loss of IQ in 3D. To be fair, at $500, the quality of the displays in this kit are a big unknown.
Fallout-NL
Member
Yes! VR headsets. You go Carmack.
I actually thought that these type pf experiences would've been implemented a long time ago. Kind of like the VR 'sex experience' seen in the Demolition Man. (and no,doesn't mean I want sex in virtual form lol)
Imo, this stuff should be the future. We can't keep being stagnant forever..
Imo, this stuff should be the future. We can't keep being stagnant forever..
Kong Fisso
Banned
I'm pretty sure that Carmack is not actually a human, but a renegade alien sent from the future to blow our minds.
you should watch the e3 interview he did. He is focusing on all the right stuff to stop motion sickness and make things more immersive.
He doesn't talk about graphics at all, he talks about reducing latency to a minimum both in displays and the sensors, and about high field of view for more immersion.
The lower latency has me really excited and the FOV will make a huge difference
here's another little snipet of him talking about it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyuMVazQPos&sns=em
Alx
Member
I don't really believe in VR headsets, but after watching Carmack demonstrating it in that video of E3, I think it's a good thing that people like him are working on it. It's like those experts working on low level functionalities to optimize them, you don't always see the benefit of their work but you need it to build performant items.
When he said that the Sony headmounted technology was great but shouldn't have the display latency he observed, it's a sign that we need people to focus on such things, otherwise we will be stuck with good but misused technology.
Just like his experiments with rockets helped to design low-latency VR headsets, I wonder what other things those experiments with VR will help to improve in the future.
When he said that the Sony headmounted technology was great but shouldn't have the display latency he observed, it's a sign that we need people to focus on such things, otherwise we will be stuck with good but misused technology.
Just like his experiments with rockets helped to design low-latency VR headsets, I wonder what other things those experiments with VR will help to improve in the future.
Thanks for this. Would've missed it otherwise.
Also, people shit-talking on Carmack. SMH. Mindlog (and others) have it right. Carmack's had more of an influence on games and the tech they use more than just what id's released. Hacking together his own VR headset *and* software is just amazing.
And hearing him talk on that GB interview... it's technical but he never talks over your head. Understood everything he went on about, could listen to him talk about anything all day, I think.
Thanks for bringing him back in my peripherals (literally and figuratively), thread.
Is that the GB one you're talking about? Watching that now. Fascinating.
What the fuck is going in this thread? It's like people don't know who Carmack is.
He is not a game designer, he is a game engine expert and no matter how bad the newest iD games are (I haven't played Rage yet so I don't know), he still absolutely knows his shit regarding technology.
He's also a down to earth guy who speaks his mind and AFAIK has never been caught lying or exaggerating things.
He is not a game designer, he is a game engine expert and no matter how bad the newest iD games are (I haven't played Rage yet so I don't know), he still absolutely knows his shit regarding technology.
He's also a down to earth guy who speaks his mind and AFAIK has never been caught lying or exaggerating things.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Most people know who Carmack and many respect his work and knowledge. None of that requires us to agree with his views
The issue here may be that some are questioning the relevance of Carmack's opinions on technology because of how iD's recent games performed.
Whether you like his games or not, the tech is genius, and he's a visionary. He's definitely looking a little too far to the future, though. VR is the future, but it's going to take a lot of brute force that we just don't have yet. The market is stagnating right now, Haswell is taking too long and GK112 might not even be out until next year unless AMD can get their shit together. They're fighting on too many fronts, and it shows. Hopefully the 720 and the PS4 will be enough to spur the next round of competition between the big three.
I disagree. I think its tantalisingly close. display makers can trivially add a 'vr' mode to cut out almost all processing to reduce latency on the display, the sensors are already pretty good and can only get better - not just rotation but yaw too, and his approach of processing in the computer to compensate for the lens aberrations means cheaper/lighter optics are possible to give you high FoV.
The motion plus sensory isolation from the outside world would add a ton to the immersion and compensate for graphics to some extent. But even then, PS4/720/current PCs would still make gorgeous looking games.
It just needs to all come together. The kickstarter kit is a start.
I said damn.
Iwata can't be taken seriously when he says this, but Carmack is another story. We saw Sony yesterday say: "PS4 won’t happen until significant leap over PS3 possible". We used to have significant graphical leap in previous generations. The leap from SD to HD was huge. As was the promise of next gen physics and AI. The leap we are looking forward to won't come close to what we had last gen. If next gen is a repeat of this year's E3 AAA me too products, people will get bored. Even in 1080p with particles effects everywhere.Carmack said:
Considering this, there is a question mark over next gen consoles sales potential, it's a tough equation to solve.
plagiarize
Banned
the resolution really worries me given the big increase in FOV. pixel density is going to be very poor in comparison to the HMZ. i mean, i am interested, the tech looks awesome, but i may wait until price drops and/or higher res units. i want to trade up my HMZ for something that's better in every way, and the Oculus Rift isn't, yet.
That's the big problem. If the Kickstarter really is only a hundred bucks, I'll buy in just because it's so cheap, but the resolution is awful. That's more what I was talking about when I referred to the brute force needed, mrklaw. To push the right amount of resolution and get a really solid pixel density, that's going to be the real challenge.
One thing that Rift has that the HMZ doesn't is the ability to use your own headphones, which is a really big deal for people with high-end audio setups. It's a must in my eyes.
One thing that Rift has that the HMZ doesn't is the ability to use your own headphones, which is a really big deal for people with high-end audio setups. It's a must in my eyes.
judging from comments in this thread about 10% of people have read the article.
what a shame but par for the course.
edit: still not thrilled about the technology because of the distance which could lead to long sight problems.
edit2: talked to a doctor I know, disregard the previous edit. Looks interesting then.
what a shame but par for the course.
edit: still not thrilled about the technology because of the distance which could lead to long sight problems.
edit2: talked to a doctor I know, disregard the previous edit. Looks interesting then.
amstradcpc
Member
One doubt, do VR glasses also have the 3D effect to give objects sense of depth?.
Do you imagine VR glasses paired with Kinect 2.0?. You would see your "3d" arms and hands as if they were real!.
Do you imagine VR glasses paired with Kinect 2.0?. You would see your "3d" arms and hands as if they were real!.