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Emily Rogers: NX prototype had a 6.2" 720p multi-touch screen, 2 USB ports on dock

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So basically 1 percent of games use it. Yeah more a reason to scrap it
There's a very low probabilty, single digit even, that it won't have a camera. So Kal you are better of forgetting about that chance.

The NX will have one at least, cameras are just too usefull potentialy and cheap enough so it's abscense might end up been more of a mistake than an advantage.
 
This thread blows my mind.

For months I've been saying "The NX portable should have a 720p screen. It should be more powerful than the Wii U, and it should be able to run games at native 720p." And everyone was like "Nah bro, it's gonna be 540p. Don't you know this is Nintendo? Don't you know the Vita couldn't hit its native resolution half the time?"

And now that I get a rumor agreeing with me, everyone's all "720p? That's like a baby's toy!"

I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.
 

what-ok

Member
I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.

I hear you.
Playing 1080p games on a tiny screen seems like overkill. The experience will be less immersive anyway compared to a larger TV screen.
An example that comes to mind is playing a game like the new Zelda that focuses on a huge open world seems like it will be less impactful on a small screen. I imagine its not the way they intended it to be played/experienced in my opinion.
 
I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.
If you don't have a problem with reduced resolution while gaming on the go, what's your issue with having a 720p/1080p screen?
 
I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.

the larger screen "could" allow for a bigger battery possibly
 

ozfunghi

Member
The Value Oriented consumer you are talking about never waits 3 years, less so when there are enough companies with good/better value propositions serving the market already.

Remeber to keep the context of the NX unveil date for the discussion, it is a shame you truncated the part of the post you replid to.

Anyways, The NX launch is the least of concerns for Nintendo as all the stock will be sold out. Specially when this time around they will have their most ambituous tiitle ever potentially launching with the device. Unveiling it in pre or post holidays won't have much of an impact.


Is strange that you bring this up as if im unaware of the fact when making my statement. ????

But isn't this accessability to information in the digital age a good point for Nintendo to wait post holiday season to make the unveil?

In the end, your 2nd point just means it takes a lot less time to build consumer awareness and hype of a product nowadays.

You said most people that would buy a PS4/XBO slim during the holidays would not be aware there is an NX even if they revealed it sooner. That's what you were implying. I never used the argument that they would not have enough time to market the thing if it's revealed in 2017, i merely said they could easily reach the consumer that is in the market to buy a new gaming device during holiday 2016 if they reveal sooner and get a lot of those to hold off their purchase until march.

Reports claim there is lots of software for NX already, and that the device will be cheap. Hence, the people in the market for a PS4/XBO/gaming tablet... for Xmas are not those that need it right away (or they would have bought a PS4/XBO... years ago). That means these are the people that are looking for an interesting proposal. If the NX is indeed cheap, has a lot of quality software and can both be used on the go as on the TV, i believe that is a very tempting offer for those gamers that clearly do not need the newest, the most powerful console (again, they would have bought the PS4 long ago) and don't necessarilly want to spend a fortune.
 
If you don't have a problem with reduced resolution while gaming on the go, what's your issue with having a 720p/1080p screen?

720p is still a resource hog.

No it's not. Technology has moved on. We can have great portable graphics and good battery life.

I own a GPD XD. It's a 5 inch screen @ 720p. It's a mid-range-ish GPU and can run Epic Citadel at 720p @ 60fps. The thing only lasts around 5 hours with a 6000Amh battery. I rather go with 540p and have the battery last for 8+ hours.
 

Volotaire

Member
I wonder what type of screen.

Probably LCD.

Hoping for a good IPS LCD screen with good colour accuracy. We probabaly won't get OLED because LCD is simply a cheaper choice which is still reasonable on mobile devices. Sacrifice the brightness and the contrasts on OLEDs though.

EDIT: I think LCD's have a lower power consumption than OLEDs too?
 

E-phonk

Banned
I own a GPD XD. It's a 5 inch screen @ 720p. It's a mid-range-ish GPU and can run Epic Citadel at 720p @ 60fps. The thing only lasts around 5 hours with a 6000Amh battery. I rather go with 540p and have the battery last for 8+ hours.
I just hope it uses a standard usb adapter so you can charge it anywhere
 

daakusedo

Member
Zelda Wii U is going be played at the EB Games Expo Sydney (Sept 30-Oct 2) so NX reveal after that in October??? :p :(

Nicowav that teased devil third exclusive, tphd, botw details among other things said during a stream, the reveal would be around september 20th.
And while we're at it, also said retro studio has two projects and both are from existing series...
 

WolfStark

Member
The most important part is, that it has have the same quality as a smartphone display. 720p for 6+ inches sounds like you can - again - count the pixel and that's something that shouldn't be possible. I like handhelds, still have my old gameboy but we the industry has new standards, every display nowadays is full hd and if it's not, it better should be small enough so you can't see a difference. Nintendo should either make a smaller screen or go for FHD.
 
Hoping for a good IPS LCD screen with good colour accuracy. We probabaly won't get OLED because LCD is simply a cheaper choice which is still reasonable on mobile devices. Sacrifice the brightness and the contrasts on OLEDs though.

EDIT: I think LCD's have a lower power consumption than OLEDs too?

I believe OLED panels are now cheaper to produce than LCD panels. You're right about power consumption, though.
 
not if the strategy is to dilute/shade NX launching marketing/sales.
neo would have more impact
If the Neo doesn't release this year, it will be due to Sony not wanting the slim, PSVR, and Neo releasing so close to each other. I'm betting on a February release.
 
Nicowav that teased devil third exclusive, tphd, botw details among other things said during a stream, the reveal would be around september 20th.
And while we're at it, also said retro studio has two projects and both are from existing series...

Is the stream archived?
 

ggx2ac

Member
Nicowav that teased devil third exclusive, tphd, botw details among other things said during a stream, the reveal would be around september 20th.
And while we're at it, also said retro studio has two projects and both are from existing series...

Awesome, I always wanted two more Donkey Kong Country Returns sequels starring Cranky Kong releasing simultaneously.

It's going to be like Fire Emblem Fates right?

Donkey Kong Country: Kongquest

Donkey Kong Country: Banana Rights
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Nicowav that teased devil third exclusive, tphd, botw details among other things said during a stream, the reveal would be around september 20th.
And while we're at it, also said retro studio has two projects and both are from existing series...

Wait, I remember he teased Devil's Third as a Wii U exclusive, but care to link to me when he leaked TPHD and BOTW details? I also remember he said there would've been other Devil's Third-like exclusives on Wii U that, I fear, never happened, but I'm interested in reading about the other times he had good guesses.

P.S. You seem to be the one who reports what he says each and every time XD
 
Awesome, I always wanted two more Donkey Kong Country Returns sequels starring Cranky Kong releasing simultaneously.

It's going to be like Fire Emblem Fates right?

Donkey Kong Country: Kongquest

Donkey Kong Country: Banana Rights

You're probably joking but I actually want this.
 

optimiss

Junior Member
I believe OLED panels are now cheaper to produce than LCD panels. You're right about power consumption, though.

I always heard OLED panels are more efficient due to not having to light black areas of the screen. As opposed to an LCD screen which lights the whole screen all the time.
 
You said most people that would buy a PS4/XBO slim during the holidays would not be aware there is an NX even if they revealed it sooner. That's what you were implying. I never used the argument that they would not have enough time to market the thing if it's revealed in 2017, i merely said they could easily reach the consumer that is in the market to buy a new gaming device during holiday 2016 if they reveal sooner and get a lot of those to hold off their purchase until march.

Reports claim there is lots of software for NX already, and that the device will be cheap. Hence, the people in the market for a PS4/XBO/gaming tablet... for Xmas are not those that need it right away (or they would have bought a PS4/XBO... years ago). That means these are the people that are looking for an interesting proposal. If the NX is indeed cheap, has a lot of quality software and can both be used on the go as on the TV, i believe that is a very tempting offer for those gamers that clearly do not need the newest, the most powerful console (again, they would have bought the PS4 long ago) and don't necessarilly want to spend a fortune.
The thing is you are the one who brought up an specific type of consumer into the discussion, the Value Oriented one. Like i already adressed, for launch this type of consumer is not critical since NIntendo will sell all product the first months of availabily. Word of mouth and a more normalized software release flow will guaranteed more stable sales in a longer span than in the case of something like the Wii U.

The value oriented consumer you speak off this holiday season won't be waiting 4 months minimum for another product. Not when there will be many offers for hardware and software at discounted prices and with model refreshes for consoles that are entering it's 4th holiday season.

To close up, i don't think that you just focusing on one type of consumer as proof that a September reveal is mandatory disaproves the point of a later unveil date. And i don't think focusing just in this is advancing the disucssion on a productive way on either side.

720p is still a resource hog.

I own a GPD XD. It's a 5 inch screen @ 720p. It's a mid-range-ish GPU and can run Epic Citadel at 720p @ 60fps. The thing only lasts around 5 hours with a 6000Amh battery. I rather go with 540p and have the battery last for 8+ hours.
But you said in the previous post that you don't have a problem with the resoltuion been lowered when using the NX as a portable. So why is the 6.2 '' inch 720p screen instead of the same size 540p one a resource hog?
 

Thraktor

Member
Yeah, like when they used cutting edge 3D LCD technology that didn't require glasses, mere months after the tech's first availability to commercial enterprises...

I was referring to their choice of SoC and screen resolution, with which they have always been pretty conservative in their handhelds. Obviously they're willing to adopt more advanced technologies when it suits their vision for the machine, whether it be the 3D in the 3DS or, apparently, the hardware being used in the NX.

Part of that was a joke. I guess I forgot you wanted the NX to change performance.

Just to make sure, you can only expect it to change clocks for the GPU, I remember Blu or Thraktor mentioning you can't just down clock the CPU because CPUs aren't scalable like GPUs in performance, they don't work that way.

Also, the other question is, how much RAM is required for the thing to output at 1080p? We're talking about for a AAA western game, not a mobile game. The NX could have 6GB of LPDDR4 RAM at 50GB/s and a small amount of embedded RAM on the die because Thraktor mentioned how the Tile-based rasterizer from Nvidia can help ease memory usage requirements for Nintendo. Although I don't know if that's enough for 1080p AAA western games.
Do the cartridges also make things easier for memory instead of loading things into the RAM?

I'm just trying to see if all that is needed is a GPU change in performance to make this work. As I said before, if the NX wasn't tablet sized, I couldn't see the changed performance while docked mode happen. We now know the NX may be as big as a Wii U Gamepad, hopefully not bulky because again, Japanese consumers think big = heavy, not big & dense = heavy.

However a change in performance to allow 1080p to work means I don't see any reason for the SCD to be around. If it were, it'd probably be for wireless use to improve the performance of the NX during portable mode. Unless Nintendo are concerned about PS4 Neo and Project Scorpio that they decided last minute to make sure the SCD would allow a huge power boost to be comparable to them. Although again I don't expect that because I'm supposed to expect the SCD to be affordable, not to satiate the desires of "gamers" that want comparable graphics go the competition.

With a screen resolution of 720p, I'm even less confident than I was before that there will be any difference in clock speeds between handheld mode and docked mode (and I wasn't particularly confident before). If they were to do so, though, with the goal to render at a higher resolution for the TV, then the logical approach would be to push as much of the additional thermal headroom towards the GPU, rather than the CPU (and potentially the RAM if they become bandwidth constrained).

Speaking of RAM, Maxwell/Pascal's use of tile-based rendering doesn't affect the quantity of RAM needed, but can reduce the bandwidth required (which would otherwise tend to be roughly linear in proportion to resolution). By increasing the amount of L2 cache available to the GPU (or perhaps implementing an L3 shared with the CPU), Nintendo and Nvidia could reduce bandwidth consumption, potentially by quite a lot. I actually just found out that TX1's GPU has just 256KB of L2 cache, which is lower than I would have expected. Desktop Maxwell and Pascal GPUs tend to have 1MB of L2 per 32 ROPs, whereas with 16 ROPs on the TX1 this puts it at half the proportional cache of its bigger brothers. I would have actually expected the situation to be reversed, as mobile SoCs are typically quite a bit more bandwidth constrained than desktop GPUs are.

In theory Nintendo could bump this quite a lot higher in order to keep as high a proportion of buffer accesses as possible on-die, reducing bandwidth consumption, saving energy and potentially saving money, if it allows them to get away with a narrower bus and fewer RAM modules. They were willing to drop 6MB of SRAM (directly accessible RAM, though, not a cache) on the 3DS SoC, so 1-2MB of L2 cache wouldn't be a big expense by their standard and should allow them to make very good use of Nvidia's tile-based rendering.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
One of my favorite things about the Gamepad's camera was using it to scan QR codes from MiiCharacters.com. Super efficient way to load the system with Miis.

With cell phone integration, such a thing may be unnecessary with NX though.

If Nintendo is still invested in the idea of AR games then that's already a justification for the camera, I guess.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Been thinking this the whole way through. Console first and handheld later.

No, I'm saying what if this hybrid is the console with the bonus of being portable, and an actual handheld with a smaller screen, less power, and longer battery life if planned for later?
 

Reki

Member
So... about the battery in this thing: I suppose the rumored screen size could allow for more space for internal components. Are good batteries too big? Is the price prohibitive? Is the mentioned GPD XD's battery a high end piece? I would love some insight from someone with knowledge in the matter.

And also... the Wii U launched with two SKUs. I think it is better to have only one to avoid confusion and facilitate marketing, but what if they are targeting to launch two versions, like N3DS and N3DS XL, at the same time?
 
No, I'm saying what if this hybrid is the console with the bonus of being portable, and an actual handheld with a smaller screen, less power, and longer battery life if planned for later?

For what purpose?

The NX is clearly designed to fill the gap between smartphones and consoles. Not just the classic Nintendo console is dead but also the classic Nintendo handheld.
 

ggx2ac

Member
With a screen resolution of 720p, I'm even less confident than I was before that there will be any difference in clock speeds between handheld mode and docked mode (and I wasn't particularly confident before). If they were to do so, though, with the goal to render at a higher resolution for the TV, then the logical approach would be to push as much of the additional thermal headroom towards the GPU, rather than the CPU (and potentially the RAM if they become bandwidth constrained).

Speaking of RAM, Maxwell/Pascal's use of tile-based rendering doesn't affect the quantity of RAM needed, but can reduce the bandwidth required (which would otherwise tend to be roughly linear in proportion to resolution). By increasing the amount of L2 cache available to the GPU (or perhaps implementing an L3 shared with the CPU), Nintendo and Nvidia could reduce bandwidth consumption, potentially by quite a lot. I actually just found out that TX1's GPU has just 256KB of L2 cache, which is lower than I would have expected. Desktop Maxwell and Pascal GPUs tend to have 1MB of L2 per 32 ROPs, whereas with 16 ROPs on the TX1 this puts it at half the proportional cache of its bigger brothers. I would have actually expected the situation to be reversed, as mobile SoCs are typically quite a bit more bandwidth constrained than desktop GPUs are.

In theory Nintendo could bump this quite a lot higher in order to keep as high a proportion of buffer accesses as possible on-die, reducing bandwidth consumption, saving energy and potentially saving money, if it allows them to get away with a narrower bus and fewer RAM modules. They were willing to drop 6MB of SRAM (directly accessible RAM, though, not a cache) on the 3DS SoC, so 1-2MB of L2 cache wouldn't be a big expense by their standard and should allow them to make very good use of Nvidia's tile-based rendering.

Making choices with regards to memory constraints is something Nintendo always considers since we've seen that since the GameCube days.

So as you say, this could be a possibility if all that is required is for them to increase L2 Cache and do something about the GPU's thermal output.

I mean, I guess it is possible to go with a 64-bit bus for RAM to lower costs since you or someone else mentioned before that 6GB was the max for LPDDR4, don't really see if more is required when they also have embedded RAM to consider on the die.

Very interesting.
 
I always heard OLED panels are more efficient due to not having to light black areas of the screen. As opposed to an LCD screen which lights the whole screen all the time.

Yeah, they are more efficient in how they use their power. It depends on what they are displaying though, and for lighter images they will consume more power than LCDs.
 

daakusedo

Member
Wait, I remember he teased Devil's Third as a Wii U exclusive, but care to link to me when he leaked TPHD and BOTW details? I also remember he said there would've been other Devil's Third-like exclusives on Wii U that, I fear, never happened, but I'm interested in reading about the other times he had good guesses.

P.S. You seem to be the one who reports what he says each and every time XD

I don't know how you find old messages past a certain time on twitter but he should have one when he said a nintendo remaster was coming, botw details I have them in a post for the day before e3 start, got them from one of his pre e3 video on youtube, which are in french btw.
 

ggx2ac

Member
For what purpose?

The NX is clearly designed to fill the gap between smartphones and consoles. Not just the classic Nintendo console is dead but also the classic Nintendo handheld.

Think of a Venn diagram. (Someone could make one.)

You have console only players on one side.

Handheld only players on the other.

In the overlap, you have the people who play both.

Hybrid benefits most for the overlap.

With the possibility of multiple form factors, they just stick the NX SoC into a PS Vita TV form factor for the console only players to lower the price, and the NX SoC into a handheld only that benefits the handheld only players and lowers the price.

Although I don't really think that would happen, it's just speculation.
 

emag

Member
I always heard OLED panels are more efficient due to not having to light black areas of the screen. As opposed to an LCD screen which lights the whole screen all the time.

OLEDs are more efficient for largely black screens (I guess games set in outer space?) and deliver great black levels. But they still suffer from rot as they age (acceptable in a phone that's replaced every year or two, not for a gaming device with a 6-year life), suffer from bad color shifting when viewed off-center (again, bad for a handheld gaming console), and generally have a lower than advertised resolution (pentile is fine for 1440p, but very noticeable at 540p/720p). Power consumption on bright/white screens is also extremely high with OLED.

IPS LCD, although not delivering great black levels/contrast, is the more optimal technology for the rumored specs.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I don't know how you find old messages past a certain time on twitter but he should have one when he said a nintendo remaster was coming, botw details I have them in a post for the day before e3 start, got them from one of his pre e3 video on youtube, which are in french btw.

Ok, I found out your post with what Nico A. said on BOTW

According to Nico.A (teased devil third exclusive, smash amiibo...) no A to B point progression but using the world to guide yourself (which would explain all the towers) and lot of work done on weather.

It'll be more difficult to find out the stuff on the "Nintendo remaster", especially considering the famous TPHD eShop leak, I should look for tweets from a long time ago. Honestly, don't know if I'll actually search for them :p
 

AfroDust

Member
I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.


720p phones were a thing like 4 years ago. There have certainly been advancements in battery tech since then to allow a handheld gaming device of that resolution to have decent battery life. And I'm sure displaying games in 720p will be a cakewalk for a Pascal based Tegra chip. Frankly, I think 540p is too low a resolution for a handheld releasing in 2017, especially when it'll have to compete with phones and tablets. And it WILL have to compete with phones and tablets.
 

Mega

Banned
I think 720p for a handheld is a waste of resources. I want to battery life to last when it's un-docked. I have no problem with lowering resolution to save battery and performance when I'm on the go. As others have pointed out, 1080p is an even bigger waste of resources when it's a portable. The battery won't last. I rather they have the big numbers for when you're playing on a TV.

I don't agree. 540p is low res enough to be very obvious to the eye and therefore annoying. As a very late owner of a Vita I was all too aware of the screen's resolution and it kind of irks me. The GPD's 720p screen on the other hand doesn't stand out as a constant reminder that it's a low res screen in any way. You just forget about it and play.

Smartphone users complain about battery life of their large 1440p phones and wish more companies would come out with more compact 720p options with excellent battery life. 720p seems to be the acceptable low end that still has great res and often yields fantastic battery life. The GPD itself (5", 720p) has a generic 6000mah battery and the whole device running on Android and cheap off the shelf Chinese parts probably isn't optimized to be as efficient as possible. And yet it has great standby time and a very solid battery life of 8-12 hours.

I know NX will have more powerful internal parts running more advanced games than the stuff I'm emulating on the GPD, but if Nintendo includes a higher quality battery and builds a handheld with great energy efficiency, I don't think battery life will be an issue.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
My phone has like 7 times the resolution of this thing.

dontlikething.png


Some peoples just will never be satisfied. Whenever Nintendo announces the NX, you will have peoples saying "Pffft! Not even fucking 4K in 2017?? My Neo and Scorpio can do it! Nintendo and its weak handheld form" when they play 4K on a 50" TV which will have less ppi than this device..

Typing this on my macbook pro retina 13" with 227ppi, the resolution is so bad that my eyes are bleeding, its unacceptable
/s

Low battery life and shittier gaming performances than virtually all other cell phones on the market because you bought into high res hype, congratulations on your purchase sir.
 

AfroDust

Member
I wonder what type of screen.

Probably LCD.


I have an LG V10 and actually prefer it's IPS display over the AMOLED one of my previous Nexus 6, so I'm kinda hoping it is LCD. Somehow anything else seems too exotic for a Nintendo device lol.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
720p is still a resource hog.



I own a GPD XD. It's a 5 inch screen @ 720p. It's a mid-range-ish GPU and can run Epic Citadel at 720p @ 60fps. The thing only lasts around 5 hours with a 6000Amh battery. I rather go with 540p and have the battery last for 8+ hours.

The 3DS normally last round 3 - 5 hours. I would imagine Nintendo are targeting that. That's completely doable with current technology and a 720p screen.
 
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