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Actress Daniele Watts reported for lewd acts, goes nuts at police investigating

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PogiJones

Banned
Different thread, much different situation Pogi.

Come on son

I'll give you it's a different thread, but when Jado got speedline banned, that didn't seem to be a problem. So with that out of the way, how is feeling and expressing vindication over being right that GZ is a dirtbag materially different than feeling and expressing vindication over being right that waiting for at least both sides of a story is prudent, other than the latter housing a much more important principle than the former?

(EDIT: I've got to get to bed, but since I don't want to give the impression I'm bailing, I'll try to find time to respond tomorrow night .)
 

Mononoke

Banned
*snip*

TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as day.

I think reaction posts in general are kind of problematic. But I agree that if you are on the wrong side of things, you are going to get smacked down as a result of it. So if you don't agree, you better make sure to elaborate extensively on your opinion.

EDIT: I edited my initial post, as I feel I need to think a bit about it more before actually making the post. I think it's irresponsible to just jump into something without fully thinking it through.
 
You're absolutely right, there's no reason to feel excitedly justified when your position ended up being correct in retrospect. Which is why you'd never show such "restrained jubilation," as lexi put it, over being right about someone's character. Or maybe...



...maybe you would do the same thing, and even take it further by not only gloating that those who disagreed with you were wrong, but also painting the whole opposition with a broad brush, and calling them stupid.

Now, for real, I agree with you that people should be restrained in their celebration of being "right," (even though few things are so binary).

But at the heart of this "restrained jubilation" is the fact that many of us are NOT stupid cave-dwellers, many of us have sided with minorities on many occasions, but many of us have been painted as racists, or in my case, "suspect," just because we've been calling for reasonable restraint in snap judgments.

You know why it's always the "usual suspects" that are calling for reserved judgment and measured discourse? It's not because we're advocates of oppression; it's because we're advocates of reserved judgment and measured discourse. Threads about sexism and racism tend to be the topics most welcoming to snap judgments, and so the "usual suspects" trying to reign things back get painted as misogynist racists.

So of course some people are getting some feeling of retribution, the people who have been so frustrated that promoting measured responses and restraint is always labeled as racist or sexist. For once, they can say, "This is the kind of danger I was talking about with snap judgments, that innocent people get hurt with this kind of shotgun justice," and finally, there's a thread for them to say it without them getting branded as racists, and quite possibly banned.

Before this thread (and probably still after this thread), it's mostly true that reasoned, measured posts--while often dogpiled--were not banned regardless of which "side" they came from. But emotional responses were only tolerated from one side: the majority side. If you don't agree with the majority, you have to be extremely careful in how you express it. If you get at all emotional with a minority opinion, you're gone.

Now, that wouldn't be so bad if the majority also couldn't get emotional and launch attacks either. But if you're being as reasonable and well-mannered as you can expressing your minority opinion, and then you get a bunch of dog-piling posters attacking your character, it's very, very difficult to reign in your emotion. When people are throwing unrestrained punches at your character, completely unchecked by moderators, it's difficult not to throw a few back. And so the minority opinion gets banned and purged at a far higher rate than the majority opinion, thus reinforcing the majority's status quo.


TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as day.

.
 
Wow at that audio. I wonder if she reacted like that because she was scared of what would happen if she got arrested for having sex in public or if she's just that crazy all the time.
 

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
PogiJones comes in here using a fucking thread post related to Trayvon Martin to support his argument.

Totally different situation, yet it's valid? No it isn't. Is this a joke to some of you?
 
Shit, I should've waited until the new page to make that last post. lol

Read your post. I think it's very understandable why people react initially on a very emotional level. A lot of people here can somewhat relate to the circumstances surrounding many of the stories in these threads. Would you also agree though that it is ok to take a reserved "wait and see" stance, and would you agree that it isn't ok to attack a person with quick, backhanded, and/or baseless insults for taking that stance?

Lol ok



It would carry more weight if it wasn't always the same people asking for more information and/or both sides of the story, not to mention the same people leaping to their defense

But I have now been "ethered" so who cares what I have to say

Absolutely there are some "regulars" where you can see right through their transparent "wait and see" defense. A lot of people legitimately just wanting to wait for more info, however, unfortunately get lumped in.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Read your post. I think it's very understandable why people react initially on a very emotional level. A lot of people here can somewhat relate to the circumstances surrounding many of the stories in these threads. Would you also agree though that it is ok to take a reserved "wait and see" stance, and would you agree that it isn't ok to attack a person with quick, backhanded, and/or baseless insults for taking that stance?



Absolutely there are some "regulars" where you can see right through their transparent "wait and see" defense. A lot of people legitimately just wanting to wait for more info, however, unfortunately get lumped in.

So, is the consensus that if you have a wait and see mentality, to just not post in the thread, until more information is released? I've seen people say that "wait and see" is about stifling conversation. That it's not something that is open to debate or speculation.
 
Wow at that audio. I wonder if she reacted like that because she was scared of what would happen if she got arrested for having sex in public or if she's just that crazy all the time.

No this is exactly what I was wondering too, maybe played the race card out of fear of being charged for indecent exposure, what that could do to her career etc. The irony being that in Hollywood it's usually the racy shit that gets you the more positive publicity/exposure, not pulling the fucking race card and acting like some representative for minority rights in an effort to cover your tracks. I'm not saying that's what it is definitively but I am wondering if there was something to the officers' supposed talk of calling an ambulance and drugging her to calm her down. Was that part ever caught on tape, or was that another fabrication from these two?
 
So, is the consensus that if you have a wait and see mentality, to just not post in the thread, until more information is released? I've seen people say that "wait and see" is about stifling conversation. That it's not something that is open to debate or speculation.

I suppose it's dependent on how the post is worded. I've seen users post reasonable opinions about possible outcomes based on the current information provided, but still maintain a "even so, lets wait until more information is brought forth before jumping to any final conclusions" approach. I don't see that as stifling conversation at all. Absolutely I can see how a post just saying a varient of "hmm, better wait and see" without any other contribution can be frustrating and counter-productive, just as quick "#notallcops" and varients of that are also counter-productive to reasonable discussion.
 

Sorian

Banned
So, is the consensus that if you have a wait and see mentality, to just not post in the thread, until more information is released? I've seen people say that "wait and see" is about stifling conversation. That it's not something that is open to debate or speculation.

It sucks for me but I'll rarely hold my tongue if I happen to walk into a thread like this. I'm all for taking a shit on the person who is wrong but something gets on my nerves when everyone makes assumptions based on the word of the side that is on top when there is literally no other evidence.
 

GorillaJu

Member
I'm happy not because I was proven right (I was on the wrong side) but I'm happy that I can restore that faith in humanity point that was lost when I read the first article.
 

Mononoke

Banned
I suppose it's dependent on how the post is worded. I've seen users post reasonable opinions about possible outcomes based on the current information provided, but still maintain a "even so, lets wait until more information is brought forth before jumping to any final conclusions" approach. I don't see that as stifling conversation at all. Absolutely I can see how a post just saying a varient of "hmm, better wait and see" without any other contribution can be frustrating and counter-productive, just as quick "#notallcops" and varients of that are also counter-productive to reasonable discussion.

Yeah. I guess (not to sound like a broken record), this is never an issue for me personally, as I always go out of my way to elaborate in my posts (especially if I'm going to argue against the majority opinion). It just seems like a fine line between reactionary posts, and which ones are appropriate or not in certain threads. I guess ultimately, it comes down individual threads, and how the poster words it.
 

Cagey

Banned
So, is the consensus that if you have a wait and see mentality, to just not post in the thread, until more information is released? I've seen people say that "wait and see" is about stifling conversation. That it's not something that is open to debate or speculation.
Those who think it stifles conversation are correct, but for the wrong reasons. It stifles a very specific conversation: the one they wish to have on their terms. It doesn't actually end discussion, it merely seeks to end the positive feedback loop that results from assumptions speculation and guesswork.

There's value in being told, in essence, to calm down, think about what is actually known, what can be REASONABLY inferred from what is known, and acknowledge where one is venturing into speculation land. God knows I need that reminder. I read the OP early on, and while I didn't post, I took the story at face value. Why? Personal bias, is my guess.
 

zaxon

Member
It would carry more weight if it wasn't always the same people asking for more information and/or both sides of the story, not to mention the same people leaping to their defense

Why would that have any effect on anything?

It's always the same people posting these threads. It's always the same people immediately saying how outraged they are. It's always the same people asking for more information. It's always the same people shitting on those people.

Why does being consistent in expressing an opinion give that opinion less weight, and why does only this one specific example of this behavior bother you?
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
I'm happy not because I was proven right (I was on the wrong side) but I'm happy that I can restore that faith in humanity point that was lost when I read the first article.

Yeah, that picture in the OP was really sad. I can't blame anyone for assuming her story was legit. It was completely plausible, although the prostitution thing was weird.

As others have expressed, hopefully this aids in requiring police to wear lapel cameras while on duty.
 

lednerg

Member
Read your post. I think it's very understandable why people react initially on a very emotional level. A lot of people here can somewhat relate to the circumstances surrounding many of the stories in these threads. Would you also agree though that it is ok to take a reserved "wait and see" stance, and would you agree that it isn't ok to attack a person with quick, backhanded, and/or baseless insults for taking that stance?

It depends. I remember having that stance about something, but I was drunk as hell and ended up being a real dick about it. Turns out my instincts were right, but since I treated people like shit, it didn't really matter. It's about tact. If you are doing the 'wait and see', then that's fine, but don't take that as your cue to act all high and mighty about it. Chances are, people are going to be responding to your attitude more than your cautious approach to forming an opinion.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Well I'm always open to new information, but until such information arrives, I usually give the benefit of the doubt to the supposed victim especially in racial matters as there is so much abuse and institutional racism.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
The first few pages of this thread are a great read now.
Yeah, but it's a little awkward now.

I read the previous pages and saw those "two sides to a story" people. Sometimes I think those people either want to argue for the sake or arguing, or are those "I'm above bias" types that think they have a superior perspective on issues when in reality they look like fucking tools, or people that genuinely believe that the cops did no wrong. Either way, fuck them. If you can't see any wrong doing on this issue then you're willfully ignorant.
Welp.
 
@Pogi:

Eh. I have no problem with a "wait and see," but when people consistently come in with no new information and no purpose other than to say "but maybe it's this," it can get annoying. That said, considering your profession, it would only be natural for you to want to wait and see.

Actually, some time back I felt the same way - the masses will always react emotionally, which can lead to a negative opinion of someone when it should be positive, etc. Even statistically smaller chances could need some representation. I understand how that can be the more empathetic view.

All that said, this is a discussion forum, and not a court of law. Just like in real life, people are going to make judgments without knowing all of the facts. Emotional judgments. We discuss based on the information that we have, not any of the myriad pieces of information that we don't.

In addition, some of the "wait and see" people are horribly transparent in their motives.
 
Shit, I should've waited until the new page to make that last post. lol

You make a good point, but this is one of those times where the phrase "consider the source" should be echoed.

Variety didn't even bother to get a formal statement. They pulled information from Facebook of all places and ran a story as fact.

How is that acceptable enough as a source or basis to run a story claiming an actress was racially profiled by police with only one side of the story?

The beginning posts echoed the same sentiment of fuck the cops based on a shit story from only one perspective, which makes me question if people on NeoGAF actually read the stories posted in threads or want to posture and go along with the angry sentiment without reading how the story is presented.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Yeah, but it's a little awkward now.

I read the previous pages and saw those "two sides to a story" people. Sometimes I think those people either want to argue for the sake or arguing, or are those "I'm above bias" types that think they have a superior perspective on issues when in reality they look like fucking tools, or people that genuinely believe that the cops did no wrong. Either way, fuck them. If you can't see any wrong doing on this issue then you're willfully ignorant.


Welp.

No, seriously. Imagine a post even remotely like this coming from the side that ended up being right. They would have been perma-banned.
 
I read the previous pages and saw those "two sides to a story" people. Sometimes I think those people either want to argue for the sake or arguing, or are those "I'm above bias" types that think they have a superior perspective on issues when in reality they look like fucking tools, or people that genuinely believe that the cops did no wrong. Either way, fuck them. If you can't see any wrong doing on this issue then you're willfully ignorant.
Lolllololol too fucking good.
 

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Snip

TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as day.

Fantastic post and point.

I'd love too see Proteins' response.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Well I'm always open to new information, but until such information arrives, I usually give the benefit of the doubt to the supposed victim especially in racial matters as there is so much abuse and institutional racism.
The problem with this is that you won't ever see any change, even if it actually occurs, removing a big driving force for improving things.
 

oneHeero

Member
You're absolutely right, there's no reason to feel excitedly justified when your position ended up being correct in retrospect. Which is why you'd never show such "restrained jubilation," as lexi put it, over being right about someone's character. Or maybe...



...maybe you would do the same thing, and even take it further by not only gloating that those who disagreed with you were wrong, but also painting the whole opposition with a broad brush, and calling them stupid.

Now, for real, I agree with you that people should be restrained in their celebration of being "right," (even though few things are so binary).

But at the heart of this "restrained jubilation" is the fact that many of us are NOT stupid cave-dwellers, many of us have sided with minorities on many occasions, but many of us have been painted as racists, or in my case, "suspect," just because we've been calling for reasonable restraint in snap judgments.

You know why it's always the "usual suspects" that are calling for reserved judgment and measured discourse? It's not because we're advocates of oppression; it's because we're advocates of reserved judgment and measured discourse. Threads about sexism and racism tend to be the topics most welcoming to snap judgments, and so the "usual suspects" trying to reign things back get painted as misogynist racists.

So of course some people are getting some feeling of retribution, the people who have been so frustrated that promoting measured responses and restraint is always labeled as racist or sexist. For once, they can say, "This is the kind of danger I was talking about with snap judgments, that innocent people get hurt with this kind of shotgun justice," and finally, there's a thread for them to say it without them getting branded as racists, and quite possibly banned.

Before this thread (and probably still after this thread), it's mostly true that reasoned, measured posts--while often dogpiled--were not banned regardless of which "side" they came from. But emotional responses were only tolerated from one side: the majority side. If you don't agree with the majority, you have to be extremely careful in how you express it. If you get at all emotional with a minority opinion, you're gone.

Now, that wouldn't be so bad if the majority also couldn't get emotional and launch attacks either. But if you're being as reasonable and well-mannered as you can expressing your minority opinion, and then you get a bunch of dog-piling posters attacking your character, it's very, very difficult to reign in your emotion. When people are throwing unrestrained punches at your character, completely unchecked by moderators, it's difficult not to throw a few back. And so the minority opinion gets banned and purged at a far higher rate than the majority opinion, thus reinforcing the majority's status quo.


TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as d
ay.
Very well said. I just keep my mouth shut in most of these threads but I think people jump to conclusions of racism all day long on gaf and it's depressing. Even if there is a recent trend in the news more often lately. It's like gaf refuses to see the difference, at this point everyone is out to get minorities for any reason. Apparently no one is doing their job, it's all racism. Nonetheless, racism is fkn atrocious and the people who commit those crimes need to rot but we need to always keep an open mind until we get more facts before jumping to conclusions.
 

freddy

Banned
Seems to me like off-topic doesn't really matter as long as the gaming side is ticking along. If it did there'd be more mod posting in here, especially since it's gone off the rails.
 

TheJLC

Member
[...]
TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as day.
Nah, you just racist, brah. Or have some sort of hidden agenda...

Seriously though, great post.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
No, seriously. Imagine a post even remotely like this coming from the side that ended up being right. They would have been perma-banned.

That's the reason I never post in police threads until both sides of the story are told. It seems super easy to get banned for taking the non majority view.
 

Zhengi

Member
I'll say this, the cop was lucky he had an audio recording of the incident or else his career would have been ruined. Mrs. Watts definitely comes off as very petty and I'm not even sure how she could have so nonchalantly jeopardized someone's livelihood in such a manner.
 

spirity

Member
I'll say this, the cop was lucky he had an audio recording of the incident or else his career would have been ruined. Mrs. Watts definitely comes off as very petty and I'm not even sure how she could have so nonchalantly jeopardized someone's livelihood in such a manner.

People don't think that far ahead. They will say anything when in the moment, just to wriggle out of something or deny a wrongdoing. They'll exaggerate and twist the truth. I've had a number of customer service jobs over the years and have seen that side of human nature play out too many times. There's a pattern of behaviour you begin to recognise, from denial, claiming ignorance, looking for pity, frustration to anger. Not always in that order.
 

pants

Member
Mrs. Watts definitely comes off as very petty and I'm not even sure how she could have so nonchalantly jeopardized someone's livelihood in such a manner.

this is the internet brah, people are calling for jobs to be ended like 5 times a day
 
It would be nice if people stopped being so worried about who's "side" ended up "winning" here, and actually celebrate the fact that the truth was revealed here. That's all anyone should be concerned with when cases like this come up.

The Ferguson case is the exact same story. The truth being made known is the ultimate goal. Not one "side" getting the truth they want.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Why would you get down in your car?
I've done it a handful of times, it's never comfortable. It's like putting in all the work for only half the payoff.

In broad daylight, with the door open...and in a public area as well....

I guess an exhibitionist might get off on public sex. People have interesting fetish's, being watched by others isn't that far down the fetish hole (lol wait did I just say that). ANYWAYS, obviously I wouldn't ever speculate that about a person. I guess I just don't understand why you would have sex in a car..in public, in broad daylight though.
 

KHarvey16

Member
"Wait and see" is a conversation liberator. Conducting discourse under the assumption we don't know everything opens it up to the consideration of more possibilities and more angles, and allows this to be done civilly.

When a thread decides very early what the correct viewpoint is it gains momentum and runs over or through anyone who might have a question, be hesitant to form a conclusion or, god forbid, is genuinely skeptical of the accepted narrative. Now of course skepticism and asking questions isn't always in good faith and can obviously be inspired by some abhorrent position, but simply assuming this is always the case is incompatible with the ideals of free discourse and entirely unnecessary.

It's also often the case that when an event or scenario is decided to be indicative of a societal ill, questioning or mere hesitance to jump to conclusions regarding that specific event is interpreted as an attack on the existence or importance of that much larger problem. "Why are you questioning this? Don't you think minorities are mistreated by police?" It's unfair and, as above, is absolutely contrary to open discussion. It creates hostility where there should be none.

I vehemently disagree that "waiting for the facts" stifles, impedes or otherwise degrades civil, useful, interesting discussion amongst members of this community and argue very strongly for precisely the opposite.
 
You're absolutely right, there's no reason to feel excitedly justified when your position ended up being correct in retrospect. Which is why you'd never show such "restrained jubilation," as lexi put it, over being right about someone's character. Or maybe...



...maybe you would do the same thing, and even take it further by not only gloating that those who disagreed with you were wrong, but also painting the whole opposition with a broad brush, and calling them stupid.

Now, for real, I agree with you that people should be restrained in their celebration of being "right," (even though few things are so binary).

But at the heart of this "restrained jubilation" is the fact that many of us are NOT stupid cave-dwellers, many of us have sided with minorities on many occasions, but many of us have been painted as racists, or in my case, "suspect," just because we've been calling for reasonable restraint in snap judgments.

You know why it's always the "usual suspects" that are calling for reserved judgment and measured discourse? It's not because we're advocates of oppression; it's because we're advocates of reserved judgment and measured discourse. Threads about sexism and racism tend to be the topics most welcoming to snap judgments, and so the "usual suspects" trying to reign things back get painted as misogynist racists.

So of course some people are getting some feeling of retribution, the people who have been so frustrated that promoting measured responses and restraint is always labeled as racist or sexist. For once, they can say, "This is the kind of danger I was talking about with snap judgments, that innocent people get hurt with this kind of shotgun justice," and finally, there's a thread for them to say it without them getting branded as racists, and quite possibly banned.

Before this thread (and probably still after this thread), it's mostly true that reasoned, measured posts--while often dogpiled--were not banned regardless of which "side" they came from. But emotional responses were only tolerated from one side: the majority side. If you don't agree with the majority, you have to be extremely careful in how you express it. If you get at all emotional with a minority opinion, you're gone.

Now, that wouldn't be so bad if the majority also couldn't get emotional and launch attacks either. But if you're being as reasonable and well-mannered as you can expressing your minority opinion, and then you get a bunch of dog-piling posters attacking your character, it's very, very difficult to reign in your emotion. When people are throwing unrestrained punches at your character, completely unchecked by moderators, it's difficult not to throw a few back. And so the minority opinion gets banned and purged at a far higher rate than the majority opinion, thus reinforcing the majority's status quo.


TL;DR: Snarky and emotional comments are completely allowed and go unpunished if it's expressing the majority opinion, but if it's expressing a minority opinion--or even just telling the majority opinion to hold back a bit--a snarky or emotional comment will get a ban. So yes, I can completely understand why people who have been frustrated with this complete domination of the conversation would feel a sense of vindication at this thread, since finally, the sense of their posts calling for measured and restrained responses is thrust into the light, and the injustice of those calling them racist or sexist is exposed clear as day.

Fantastic post. I strongly believe this is why certain topics on this board are echo chambers and nothing more. "You are with us or against us" is such a strong sentiment in some threads/topics that I and many others simply obstain from participating entirely.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Yeah, that is messed up. Still doesn't change the fact that you're waiving a right that was important enough to be established in the GODDAMNED BILL OF RIGHTS.
Showing your ID to the police does vary by state. Where I live, it is required if they ask and they can arrest you if you refuse to show it, from what I understand.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Showing your ID to the police does vary by state. Where I live, it is required if they ask and they can arrest you if you refuse to show it, from what I understand.

They need to have reasonable cause. And, since not everyone is required to have ID, it's usually a requirement to identify yourself by providing a name and not official documentation.
 

otapnam

Member
This should be added to the OP:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...stioned-by-lapd-audio-20140915-htmlstory.html

It's a more concise article of what happened than Variety, although it's only slightly less shoddy.

We have the department perspective but not Ms. Watts? Couldn't the Times have actually interviewed her for her side of the story as well?

Tell me u read the article you just linked.





"Lucas and Watts did not return calls or text messages Monday from The Times, despite previously agreeing to an interview."
 
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