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[Jayhawk]

Eric Decker is destroying me

Team Gill!!!

 

[ErasureAcer]

Lol no, the playoffs are separate from all this of course. If a 6-7 team makes the playoffs and wins 2 games, they are by definition in the championship game. Likewise, regardless of what happens, the final 3v4 matchup will always be between the two teams that lose in the second-to-last week of the playoffs.

The playoffs are cut off from all this and they operate according to normal playoff rules, and nobody from outside the playoffs will be jumping into the playoffs or anything, everything I'm talking about is solely about how we're going to make the loser's bracket still interesting.

Let's use some hypotheticals.

SHP
Foster byes.

Only vs. Run
Peezy vs Russ

Russ and Run win and play SHP and Foster.

Only plays Peezy in week 2. The loser and winner of that game play who? The winner should play someone better but there is no one better to play since the championship and third place matches are the same week. The loser of that Only vs. Peezy game plays who? Someone from the consolation bracket? Are both the winner and loser of Only vs. Peezy playing consolation teams...which ones? Why? What happens if they consolation team wins? How am I having fun by beating a consolation team in week 16 or even playing one for that matter? It's a pointless game on my end. If anything, if I'm playing the best consolation team...I can only screw them over and potentially keep them from JL2 by winning, no? I simply don't care.

 

[Arkos]

So the 6-7 and team(could be Peezy or Stonking or Gill, whoever has that tiebreaker or they could be 7-6...but whatever)...they win 2 games and they're not playing for the championship because Foster and StrawHat still have a better overall record and thus are in the 1st place game?

Absolutely not

Lol no, the playoffs are separate from all this of course. If a 6-7 team makes the playoffs and wins 2 games, they are by definition in the championship game.

Be more specific about your concern if possible? I really think you'll be fine with the playoffs, if you're specific or give examples I can try to address them.

Edit: ^^ I see you just did that, give me a second

 

[ErasureAcer]

Absolutely not



Be more specific about your concern if possible? I really think you'll be fine with the playoffs, if you're specific or give examples I can try to address them.

I just did. =) We're typing too long we're not seeing the other reply before we're done typing. My hypothetical is posted above.

 

[youngplaya21]

Really glad I got Roddy White now. I was getting worried that he wouldn't be ready for the playoffs, but it looks like he hit his stride just in time. That and his easy schedule makes him a damn good flex play from now on

 

[Rawr Its Ry]

Thank you based Gordon and Tucker. Hopefully picking up Crabs will help me during playoffs.

 

[Arkos]

Really glad I got Roddy White now. I was getting worried that he wouldn't be ready for the playoffs, but it looks like he hit his stride just in time. That and his easy schedule makes him a damn good flex play from now on

You're welcome now I just need Cruz to come through for me tonight (not looking so good so far lol)

 

[youngplaya21]

Let's use some hypotheticals.

SHP
Foster byes.

Only vs. Run
Peezy vs Russ

Russ and Run win and play SHP and Foster.

Only plays Peezy in week 2. The loser and winner of that game play who? The winner should play someone better but there is no one better to play since the championship and third place matches are the same week. The loser of that Only vs. Peezy game plays who? Someone from the consolation bracket? Are both the winner and loser of Only vs. Peezy playing consolation teams...which ones? Why? What happens if they consolation team wins? How am I having fun by beating a consolation team in week 16 or even playing one for that matter? It's a pointless game on my end. If anything, if I'm playing the best consolation team...I can only screw them over and potentially keep them from JL2 by winning, no? I simply don't care.

This. I'd be lying I did say I'd give a crap about playing after the first loss or if I didn't make the playoffs. If I'm not in the running for JL1 or the Lore, there's no point in playing. It'll matter even less starting next year, when only the top 2 and bottom 2 actually change leagues.

 

[Arkos]

Let's use some hypotheticals.

SHP
Foster byes.

Only vs. Run
Peezy vs Russ

Russ and Run win and play SHP and Foster.

Only plays Peezy in week 2. The loser and winner of that game play who? The winner should play someone better but there is no one better to play since the championship and third place matches are the same week. The loser of that Only vs. Peezy game plays who? Someone from the consolation bracket? Are both the winner and loser of Only vs. Peezy playing consolation teams...which ones? Why? What happens if they consolation team wins? How am I having fun by beating a consolation team in week 16 or even playing one for that matter? It's a pointless game on my end. If anything, if I'm playing the best consolation team...I can only screw them over and potentially keep them from JL2 by winning, no? I simply don't care.

*rolls up sleeves*

Okay, so Only v Peezy in week 2.

The loser and winner of that game play who?

Well that will be the last week of the season, so everybody outside of 1-4 (whose matchups are already set) will be reseeded based on overall record etc. So, worst case scenario, Only and Peezy could end up playing each other again?

side note one thing I hadn't really thought about is the possibility of, for example, the team that finishes 5 having a better record than the team that finishes 4. 4 would have gone all the way through the playoffs, so I feel like 1-4 should be set based on those final games rather than overall record, as a reward for the playoffs, whereas after that everybody 5-12 should be ranked based solely on overall record etc.

The loser of that Only vs. Peezy game plays who? Someone from the consolation bracket? Are both the winner and loser of Only vs. Peezy playing consolation teams...which ones? Why?

As I said above, everybody 5 and below will be reseeded after week 2, so they would play whoever they get seeded to play according to their overall record > head to head > total points for (because, in this scenario, they would be 5 and below).

What happens if they consolation team wins?

Then their record would be that much better, which could possibly play a role in final seeding

How am I having fun by beating a consolation team in week 16 or even playing one for that matter?

Well I can't answer that for you. The alternative is an even more meaningless game set up by ESPN.com's computers, so we can do that if you really want.

It's a pointless game on my end

I disagree. You have a final chance to improve your season (which can be very important if you're right around the cut line) or fuck up somebody else's season.

If anything, if I'm playing the best consolation team...I can only screw them over and potentially keep them from JL2 by winning, no? I simply don't care.

Ultimately, yes, you may find yourself in this scenario, in which case yes, you have a meaningless game if you don't enjoy ruining other people's seasons. I am sorry. But I think that this set up provides the most possibility for the most meaningful games for as many people as possible. Remember, in this scenario the game would be very important to your opponent.

 

[Arkos]

This. I'd be lying I did say I'd give a crap about playing after the first loss or if I didn't make the playoffs. If I'm not in the running for JL1 or the Lore, there's no point in playing. It'll matter even less starting next year, when only the top 2 and bottom 2 actually change leagues.

Wow then you guys are some poor sports! Did you not see the disclaimer in the OP???

Welcome to the GAF Justice League, a fantasy football league where we wager something much more valuable than money: our pride and honor!

C'mon man!

Edit: also it's going to be 4 teams changing leagues every year, I've stated this before lol, no worries though

Edit 2: seriously, if I went by your logic I should have stopped playing weeks ago lol. I'm playing for the true prizes of the GJL: pride and honor.

 

[youngplaya21]

Wow then you guys are some poor sports! Did you not see the disclaimer in the OP???



C'mon man!

Edit: also it's going to be 4 teams changing leagues every year, I've stated this before lol, no worries though

Edit 2: seriously, if I went by your logic I should have stopped playing weeks ago lol. I'm playing for the true prizes of the GJL: pride and honor.

I'm talking about during the playoffs. If I'm like 9th, know I'm JL2 bound, AND know that I won't make the playoffs, then what's the point of playing in your consolidation ladder? To get to 7th and still be JL2 bound + not win the playoffs? I'd still change my lineup and all, but the playoffs should be played with the 'win or go home' mentality.

And which 4 teams? I thought the best two teams moved up a league, and the worse two moved down a league. Will it be like it is now permanently instead? And I'm talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. I don't think there should be any sort of consolidation ladder to begin with. It should be like March Madness: win or you're done. Not this 5v6, 7v8, etc bs to make the losers feel better.

 

[Arkos]

I'm talking about during the playoffs. If I'm like 9th, know I'm JL2 bound, AND know that I won't make the playoffs, then what's the point of playing in your consolidation ladder? To get to 7th and still be JL2 bound + not win the playoffs? I'd still change my lineup and all, but the playoffs should be played with the 'win or go home' mentality.

Yeah, your assessment is exactly right. In that scenario you'd be guaranteed a JL2 spot and no chance of moving up, and that would be a bummer, and I'm sorry.

But again, the games could mean a lot more than that to the people that you are playing, so saying that they are "meaningless" is a one-sided way of thinking about it. And also, pride and honor man! You have a name to uphold.

the playoffs should be played with the 'win or go home' mentality

They are, but we're talking about teams that aren't in the playoffs.

 

[Arkos]

Don't have the AFK mentality that if the game doesn't matter to you it doesn't matter to anybody else

 

[youngplaya21]

Don't have the AFK mentality that if the game doesn't matter to you it doesn't matter to anybody else

You're literally saying that everyone should make the playoffs man. To me, thats where the best of the best play it out to see who is #1 and win the trophy. I literally never heard of that: you don't see all college teams playing during March Madness, with the losing teams playing the other teams to see who is the #47 best teams. You won't see the raiders play the browns during the NFL playoffs or see who's ranked #22. Why are we trying to set it up so we can see #11 play #12 to see of they can reach #10 for, then? If you don't make the playoffs or advance, you should be sitting home watching the ones that did play, just like every other sport

 

[Arkos]

You're literally saying that everyone should make the playoffs man.

I'm absolutely not! That's the last thing that I want, trust me.

The "consolation" part of the league is not any kind of playoffs. It's allowing the poor saps who got left out of the playoffs to have 3 more weeks of fun, if that's how you want to think about it, and it's a way to keep everybody engaged.

So calling the loser's bracket "playoffs" is disingenuous, it isn't playoffs at all, it's just an extra few weeks for the losers who didn't make it into the playoffs to duke it out among themselves

Edit: also, yes that is the way that real sports work, and that is also one of the benefits of a "fantasy" league, we can set it up so that the end of the season isn't meaningless for half of the teams. I'm all for real world rules applying to fantasy leagues, but it seems like you're going too far. If we can have everybody playing games for all 16 weeks then why not

 

[youngplaya21]

I'm absolutely not! That's the last thing that I want, trust me.

The "consolation" part of the league is not any kind of playoffs. It's allowing the poor saps who got left out of the playoffs to have 3 more weeks of fun, if that's how you want to think about it, and it's a way to keep everybody engaged.

So calling the loser's bracket "playoffs" is disingenuous, it isn't playoffs at all, it's just an extra few weeks for the losers who didn't make it into the playoffs to duke it out among themselves

Edit: also, yes that is the way that real sports work, and that is also one of the benefits of a "fantasy" league, we can set it up so that the end of the season isn't meaningless for half of the teams. I'm all for real world rules applying to fantasy leagues, but it seems like you're going too far. If we can have everybody playing games for all 16 weeks then why not

If that's all it is, then the default espn setting should work. No need for any crazy setup or anything.

 

[Arkos]

If that's all it is, then the default espn setting should work. No need for any crazy setup or anything.

Phew, yes, this. There is no crazy setup. ESPN default settings for the first two weeks (although we could also discuss the merits of their system, we'll leave that for another time)

I have to reseed 11 and 12 in week 3 in order to get a true Sacko game, that's where it all begins. So I figured I might as well reseed everybody else while I'm at it, and we can have 5v6 etc matchups for some nice bragging rights games. That's all it is lol.

Edit: also since I probably have to change matchups in order to make sure that we have a true 11v12 for the Sacko, I figured it would be unfair to the teams that got their schedules changed by that, and so a good way of evening it out would be to make it consecutively-seeded-team matchups (5v6, 7v8 ... 11v12) across the board in week 3.

 

[ErasureAcer]

I'm absolutely not! That's the last thing that I want, trust me.

The "consolation" part of the league is not any kind of playoffs. It's allowing the poor saps who got left out of the playoffs to have 3 more weeks of fun, if that's how you want to think about it, and it's a way to keep everybody engaged.

So calling the loser's bracket "playoffs" is disingenuous, it isn't playoffs at all, it's just an extra few weeks for the losers who didn't make it into the playoffs to duke it out among themselves

Edit: also, yes that is the way that real sports work, and that is also one of the benefits of a "fantasy" league, we can set it up so that the end of the season isn't meaningless for half of the teams. I'm all for real world rules applying to fantasy leagues, but it seems like you're going too far. If we can have everybody playing games for all 16 weeks then why not

The consolation isn't meaningless if the top 2 teams(if you played the consolation playoffs out) got into JL2. That's the way it should be...anything else is just stupid...as I said before the only exception is a third place game for the bronze. And like the other dude is saying, once you're beat in the playoffs, you're done. No one cares about stupid games that decide nothing which is essentially what you're suggesting. Also, combining playoffs with the regular season for overall record to decide next year's JL is quite stupid. You're pretty much doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing(giving people a shot to move up)...let's say llamas wins all his games in the playoffs. Add that to his abysmal record in the regular season and he's still in JL3. But if he makes it to the consolation championship in my scenario he's in the JL2. (not that he's even playing since he's afk but you get my point).

A good league manager would listen to the league(s). That's what you're not doing.

 

[Arkos]

The consolation isn't meaningless if the top 2 teams(if you played the consolation playoffs out) got into JL2. That's the way it should be...anything else is just stupid...as I said before the only exception is a third place game for the bronze. And like the other dude is saying, once you're beat in the playoffs, you're done. No one cares about stupid games that decide nothing which is essentially what you're suggesting. Also, combining playoffs with the regular season for overall record to decide next year's JL is quite stupid. You're pretty much doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing(giving people a shot to move up)...let's say llamas wins all his games in the playoffs. Add that to his abysmal record in the regular season and he's still in JL3. But if he makes it to the consolation championship in my scenario he's in the JL2. (not that he's even playing since he's afk but you get my point).

A good league manager would listen to the league(s). That's what you're not doing.

Well okay, that hurts bro . I'm trying to listen while presenting my counter argument. Also, I'm only hearing from you two and I'd like to hear from more people. But if people agree with you then by all means I'll do whatever, as always this is a democracy. We still have plenty of time to debate and decide

So are you proposing that, once the playoffs start, the other 6 teams' records just stop there and once you lose in the playoffs your record stops there? That sounds fine (and realistic lol) and if that's what everybody wants that's fine, but how do we do a Sacko game then? Also I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're thinking, maybe let me know how you think it should work.

Again, thanks for the feedback, we'll get it right

 

[Jayhawk]

I don't even care about a sacko bowl, even if I was in that 11th or 12th position. I would just bitch by the time the regular season was done, and already look ahead to next season... maybe claim some players off waivers to block other teams, but that's about it in terms of caring. I stop caring when my team loses in the playoffs.

I'd prefer if we just stick to ESPN's default settings for non-playoff teams and stop trying to over-analyze this shit. With the AFK teams getting kicked out, we will barely have enough to fill 2 JGLs next year.

 

[youngplaya21]

The consolation isn't meaningless if the top 2 teams(if you played the consolation playoffs out) got into JL2. That's the way it should be...anything else is just stupid...as I said before the only exception is a third place game for the bronze. And like the other dude is saying, once you're beat in the playoffs, you're done. No one cares about stupid games that decide nothing which is essentially what you're suggesting. Also, combining playoffs with the regular season for overall record to decide next year's JL is quite stupid. You're pretty much doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing(giving people a shot to move up)...let's say llamas wins all his games in the playoffs. Add that to his abysmal record in the regular season and he's still in JL3. But if he makes it to the consolation championship in my scenario he's in the JL2. (not that he's even playing since he's afk but you get my point).

A good league manager would listen to the league(s). That's what you're not doing.

Wellthatescalatedquickly.jpeg

And I can't believe that Garçon fumble literally cost me the win... Now I gotta hope Stonking doesn't pull off a win, although I think I'm in the playoffs regardless

Edit: and yeah, what Jayhawk said. Although if you could do the Sacko bowl on the side, that'll be cool too. Just don't mess with the current playoff settings to get it setup

 

[Jayhawk]

And I can't believe that Garçon fumble literally cost me the win... Now I gotta hope Stonking doesn't pull off a win, although I think I'm in the playoffs regardless

If both Tate and Jimmy Graham can pull off 20+ point games on Monday night for Stonking to win this week, that would be amazing. I'm interested to see how the Seahawks defense plays Graham.

With Team Gill winning and all the 6-6 teams looking like they'll lose, four 6-7 teams to fight for the last 2 playoff spots!

EDIT: One rule clarification I do care about is the head-to-head record working as tiebreaker for seeding.
With four teams tied at 6-7 and a look at their head-to-head records against each other...
I have Corporate Peezy LLC and Team GiLL making it with 2-1 records in the head-to-head matchups and United We Run and Stonking Great Hits missing out on the playoffs by going 1-2 in these head-to-head matchups.

 

[iAmMaximus]

If both Tate and Jimmy Graham can pull off 20+ point games on Monday night for Stonking to win this week, that would be amazing. I'm interested to see how the Seahawks defense plays Graham.

With Team Gill winning and all the 6-6 teams looking like they'll lose, four 6-7 teams to fight for the last 2 playoff spots!

EDIT: One rule clarification I do care about is the head-to-head record working as tiebreaker for seeding.
With four teams tied at 6-7 and a look at their head-to-head records against each other...
I have Corporate Peezy LLC and Team GiLL making it with 2-1 records in the head-to-head matchups and United We Run and Stonking Great Hits missing out on the playoffs by going 1-2 in these head-to-head matchups.

I will retire from fantasy football if I lose to Stonking.

 

[Vyer]

Man, that loss last week really stings now. Stupid Texans. From 1-6 to (probably) 5-8, the second half of the season went a little better but it just wasn't enough.

The consolation isn't meaningless if the top 2 teams(if you played the consolation playoffs out) got into JL2. That's the way it should be...anything else is just stupid...as I said before the only exception is a third place game for the bronze. And like the other dude is saying, once you're beat in the playoffs, you're done. No one cares about stupid games that decide nothing which is essentially what you're suggesting. Also, combining playoffs with the regular season for overall record to decide next year's JL is quite stupid. You're pretty much doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing(giving people a shot to move up)...let's say llamas wins all his games in the playoffs. Add that to his abysmal record in the regular season and he's still in JL3. But if he makes it to the consolation championship in my scenario he's in the JL2. (not that he's even playing since he's afk but you get my point).

A good league manager would listen to the league(s). That's what you're not doing.

I don't think that's fair. Arkos has been forthcoming with all his info and actively discussing all aspects of the league. That's what you guys are doing now. It's a little premature to say he's 'not listening'.

 

[youngplaya21]

If both Tate and Jimmy Graham can pull off 20+ point games on Monday night for Stonking to win this week, that would be amazing. I'm interested to see how the Seahawks defense plays Graham.

With Team Gill winning and all the 6-6 teams looking like they'll lose, four 6-7 teams to fight for the last 2 playoff spots!

EDIT: One rule clarification I do care about is the head-to-head record working as tiebreaker for seeding.
With four teams tied at 6-7 and a look at their head-to-head records against each other...
I have Corporate Peezy LLC and Team GiLL making it with 2-1 records in the head-to-head matchups and United We Run and Stonking Great Hits missing out on the playoffs by going 1-2 in these head-to-head matchups.

So Team Gill, a 3x AFK member, is going to make the playoffs??? Or will he not qualify and I take his spot (I own the tiebreaker against Stonking)? And we're allowed to reseed everyone's standings right? I forgot to ask if that's possible, because I think they're going on PTS For right now in espn.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Once again I thought the rules about tiebreakers were clear. Unless it's a 2 person tie it goes to head to head. If it's a 3 person or more tie it goes to points. Run and Stonking make it in on points(If Peezy isn't 7-6 as I haven't checked the status of that game vs SHP). Gill with a valiant effort falls up short even though I checked last night if he beat Stonking and he did...not sure how he did against Run or Peezy.

The way I understand it...there is no way for Gill to make the playoffs. Peezy has to win to make it because Stonking and Run have more points. What complicates matters is with Gill winning and let's say Stonking wins to grab the 5th spot. That leaves 3 teams at 6-7. But let's say Peezy has the tiebreaker over Run in h2h(if Peezy is losing to SHP). Then Gill winning f's over Peezy because now it's a 3 way tie and Run is in on points.

Not exactly the best tiebreaker rules here either but I'm pretty damn sure that's how it works.

 

[ErasureAcer]

It looks like Peezy loses to SHP.

If all 4 finish 6-7 which it probably will unless Stonking can get 40+ point tonight.

Gill is 2-1
Peezy is 2-1
Run is 1-2
Stonking is 1-2.

So they all played each other just once. Gill and Peezy have the best h2h records but Run and Stonking have the most points. Let's see how the LM deals with this. I was under the impression Run and Stonking would make it but there's definitely a case looking at the above that Gill and Peezy deserve in.

 

[Omega]

I hate Julius Thomas. I know I already made the playoffs but I lost this week because of him being a game time decision. I think I played an AFK last week so it didn't matter but I hate game time decisions.

 

[Arkos]

I don't even care about a sacko bowl, even if I was in that 11th or 12th position.

and yeah, what Jayhawk said. Although if you could do the Sacko bowl on the side, that'll be cool too.

Okay that's cool, we can just set up the Sacko on the side.

But:

I'd prefer if we just stick to ESPN's default settings for non-playoff teams and stop trying to over-analyze this shit

Just don't mess with the current playoff settings to get it setup

That's the thing, the current ESPN settings have everybody playing for the last 3 weeks, I was only proposing a small tweak to the final week's matchups.

So do we want to have everybody playing for the last 3 weeks, or do we want the bottom 6's record to just end after the regular season, and when you lose in the playoffs your record ends right there? (And then we'll throw in a Sacko Bowl but obviously that won't affect anybody moving up or down). Is this what y'all are thinking?

That's totally fine if so, I'm just confused by people calling for leaving the ESPN settings the same when that's basically what I was proposing. It sounds like you guys want it so that once you either don't make the playoffs or lose in the playoffs, your season is over, is that correct?

EDIT: One rule clarification I do care about is the head-to-head record working as tiebreaker for seeding.
With four teams tied at 6-7 and a look at their head-to-head records against each other...
I have Corporate Peezy LLC and Team GiLL making it with 2-1 records in the head-to-head matchups and United We Run and Stonking Great Hits missing out on the playoffs by going 1-2 in these head-to-head matchups.

So Team Gill, a 3x AFK member, is going to make the playoffs??? Or will he not qualify and I take his spot (I own the tiebreaker against Stonking)? And we're allowed to reseed everyone's standings right? I forgot to ask if that's possible, because I think they're going on PTS For right now in espn.

I think Acer has the tiebreaker right:

If it's a 2 person tie it goes to head to head. If it's a 3 person or more tie it goes to points.

The only reason is that there's no good way that I can think of to use head to head record to break a 3+ way tie where everybody has played each other, so it will revert to total points for in that case (which is honestly a pretty fair way to judge how well a team has been performing any way).

Thoughts?

Edit: Also:

The way I understand it...there is no way for Gill to make the playoffs.

Yeah, I just glanced at it, and even if Gill ends up tied with 4 other people at 6-7, he's going to have so few points for that he probably won't win the tiebreaker.

 

[youngplaya21]

It looks like Peezy loses to SHP.

If all 4 finish 6-7 which it probably will unless Stonking can get 40+ point tonight.

Gill is 2-1
Peezy is 2-1
Run is 1-2
Stonking is 1-2.

So they all played each other just once. Gill and Peezy have the best h2h records but Run and Stonking have the most points. Let's see how the LM deals with this. I was under the impression Run and Stonking would make it but there's definitely a case looking at the above that Gill and Peezy deserve in.

Yeah, I have no idea how it'll be worked out. I'd say all four teams have a case for getting in the playoffs, and a case for not being in the playoffs...

I honestly thought Gill isn't even up for contention due to his 3+ AFK history. If that's the case, it'll be me, Peezy, and Stonking left. We're all 1-1 against each other, in which case PTS For is the tiebreaker. If that's the case, then I think the ESPN ranking is the correct one, since Gill should be the lowest scoring team of the 4 anyways. So it would be me at 5th, Stonking at 6th, Peezy at 7th, and Gill at 8th.

That's the thing, the current ESPN settings have everybody playing for the last 3 weeks, I was only proposing a small tweak to the final week's matchups.

So do we want to have everybody playing for the last 3 weeks, or do we want the bottom 6's record to just end after the regular season, and when you lose in the playoffs your record ends right there? (And then we'll throw in a Sacko Bowl but obviously that won't affect anybody moving up or down). Is this what y'all are thinking?

That's totally fine if so, I'm just confused by people calling for leaving the ESPN settings the same when that's basically what I was proposing. It sounds like you guys want it so that once you either don't make the playoffs or lose in the playoffs, your season is over, is that correct?

If everyone else wants to continue playing like that, go ahead. That's just my mentality on the consolidation ladder. I'd personally stop caring after the first loss, and you'd likely be playing an AFK team in the ladder anyways, so I don't see the point of trying. I don't care much for jumping ranks after the regular season is over, that's all.

The only reason is that there's no good way that I can think of to use head to head record to break a 3+ way tie where everybody has played each other, so it will revert to total points for in that case (which is honestly a pretty fair way to judge how well a team has been performing any way).

Thoughts?

To me, it comes down to if Gill can make the playoffs or not. Answer that, and we'll know who makes the playoffs. Also, Acer is Only Human: he's already in the top 4, so he isn't part of the 4-way tiebreaker

If Gill can make the playoffs, Team Gill and Corporate Peezy LLC make the playoffs, due to being 2-1 in the 4-way.
If Gill cannot make the playoffs, United We Run and Stonking Great Hits make the playoffs, due to the 3-way tie and having higher PTS For this season

Should we vote????

 

[Vyer]

I know Gill has several AFKs, but his lineup has been clearly getting adjusted for like the last month or so so someone is playing and impacting the league.

Also, As someone not in the playoffs, I want my remaining games to matter at least for end of year and JL2-3 ranking.

 

[Arkos]

If everyone else wants to continue playing like that, go ahead. That's just my mentality on the consolidation ladder. I'd personally stop caring after the first loss, and you'd likely be playing an AFK team in the ladder anyways, so I don't see the point of trying. I don't care much for jumping ranks after the regular season is over, that's all.

Word, that's cool, I guess it makes sense. I have experience being in the bottom of the league so I wanted to try to let the bottom half still have 3 more games, but if nobody cares then that's that lol. It would make things simpler as well I suppose.

To me, it comes down to if Gill can make the playoffs or not. Answer that, and we'll know who makes the playoffs

Well I don't know where to start drawing the line when it comes to AFK's and not being allowed to make the playoffs. Would we like to make it so that if you have 3+ AFK's then you are barred from the playoffs? What if GiLL comes running in and argues that he was just busy with work for some of those AFK's and he still wants to play? Tough shit? That's fine with me, I just wanna make sure it's fine with everybody else.

For a more pertinent example, look at the JL3 standings.
http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/standings?leagueId=1437107&seasonId=2013
It looks like Deimon will beat TSF, so we'll have 5 teams from OT in the playoffs and only the division winner from Gaming. But if TSF had beaten Deimon then he would be in the playoffs with like 6+ AFK's, we're all cool with barring someone like that from the playoffs?

I guess that would effectively mean that we kick AFK people out after the regular season, not after the playoffs. That's cool with me if it's cool with everybody else. I will feel obligated to contact anybody who would be affected and they could complicate it by pleading for clemency lol, but I can be stern if that's what we all want.

Word?

Also, everybody remember that one of the goals of this season is to work out the kinks by discussion and trial and error, since we've never played fantasy football with each other before, so this is all good stuff that will lead to a stronger league next year (when we don't have to discuss all of the little settings because we worked them out this year )

 

[Arkos]

I know Gill has several AFKs, but his lineup has been clearly getting adjusted for like the last month or so so someone is playing and impacting the league.

Yeah but has he already blown his shot? I guess that's the question

Also, As someone not in the playoffs, I want my remaining games to matter at least for end of year and JL2-3 ranking.

Thank you for some input from the non-playoffs side. I don't see what it hurts to do this. I support having all the games matter for everybody as well.

If Gill can make the playoffs, Team Gill and Corporate Peezy LLC make the playoffs, due to being 2-1 in the 4-way.
If Gill cannot make the playoffs, United We Run and Stonking Great Hits make the playoffs, due to the 3-way tie and having higher PTS For this season

Should we vote????

As for the GiLL scenario, yeah, do we want to vote? (I think that you have the tiebreaker scenario wrong however, remember since it's a 4-way tie it's going to be based off of points, not head to head record, and so GiLL is at the bottom of that tiebreaker any way) But it is a pertinent question, how to deal with AFK's

Option A: AFK teams get kicked out after the regular season, or at least barred from making the playoffs (we'd still have to factor them in somehow if we do the loser's bracket)

Option B: AFK teams get to play the season out, whether they make the playoffs or not, and we kick them out after the season.

Also, we have two options for the loser's bracket:

Option A: No loser's bracket. Your season is over when you either don't make the playoffs or lose in the playoffs. 7-12 will be seeded for next season based on their regular season record, playoff teams will be seeded according to how they finish in the playoffs. Since there are no consolation games in this scenario, the two teams that lose in the playoffs each week would be seeded against each other in the final standings according to tiebreakers.

Option B: Loser's bracket as per ESPN rules, with the last week reseeded, teams will be seeded for next season based on the outcome of all the playoffs, including the loser's bracket.

Before you vote look at the projected playoffs and consider what could happen, I really don't think Option B is going to have the negative effects that you guys fear, and if the only reason to not go for Option B is that you won't care once you lose, I don't know if that's a good enough reason to prevent everybody else from having 3 more weeks to the season. I care, lol.

 

[Jayhawk]

Have you made any sort of contact with the team owner of Team GiLL at all? I would like to see him explain himself before we decide to kick him from the playoffs or not. Corporate Peezy LLC is affected by our decision, how has he been regarding AFKs?

 

[Vyer]

As far as the AFK thing goes, I agree with dumping at the end of the year, but not at the end of the regular season. If consolation stuff is completely pointless, I guess I can see the point though. I just hope that - since we are doing the tiered league thing - that isn't the case.

Personally, I'm not a fan of such things being implemented *during* the season (the decimal thing biting me this year for an example). As is the case here, even someone who has had AFKs is still impacting the League and in the interest of fairness - especially considering final rank (not just playoff) will effect next year's configuration - that should play out through the course of the year.

 

[Arkos]

As far as the AFK thing goes, I agree with dumping at the end of the year, but not at the end of the regular season. If consolation stuff is completely pointless, I guess I can see the point though. I just hope that - since we are doing the tiered league thing - that isn't the case.

Personally, I'm not a fan of such things being implemented *during* the season (the decimal thing biting me this year for an example). As is the case here, even someone who has had AFKs is still impacting the League and in the interest of fairness - especially considering final rank (not just playoff) will effect next year's configuration - that should play out through the course of the year.

I agree with you 100%

And consolation stuff wouldn't be completely pointless, as you said it would be a final chance to move up or down, although if you look at the math you could only realistically move up or down 1 or 2 spots -- but that would make it really interesting for the 6-10 teams, give other teams a chance to mess up those teams seasons, and give verybody one last chance for bragging rights.

 

[Arkos]

Have you made any sort of contact with the team owner of Team GiLL at all? I would like to see him explain himself before we decide to kick him from the playoffs or not. Corporate Peezy LLC is affected by our decision, how has he been regarding AFKs?

Peezy is fine, and I do plan to contact GiLL after tonight's games, but the very fact that he apparently doesn't ever check this thread or reach out on his own to explain his AFK's or at least say "my bad" doesn't seem to bode well. But yeah, I will be contacting AFK people after the end of the regular season, I just got tired of chasing down 6+ AFK people from all the leagues every week

 

[youngplaya21]

Yeah but has he already blown his shot? I guess that's the question



Thank you for some input from the non-playoffs side. I don't see what it hurts to do this. I support having all the games matter for everybody as well.



As for the GiLL scenario, yeah, do we want to vote? (I think that you have the tiebreaker scenario wrong however, remember since it's a 4-way tie it's going to be based off of points, not head to head record, and so GiLL is at the bottom of that tiebreaker any way) But it is a pertinent question, how to deal with AFK's

Option A: AFK teams get kicked out after the regular season, or at least barred from making the playoffs (we'd still have to factor them in somehow if we do the loser's bracket)

Option B: AFK teams get to play the season out, whether they make the playoffs or not, and we kick them out after the season.

Also, we have two options for the loser's bracket:

Option A: No loser's bracket. Your season is over when you either don't make the playoffs or lose in the playoffs. 7-12 will be seeded for next season based on their regular season record, playoff teams will be seeded according to how they finish in the playoffs. Since there are no consolation games in this scenario, the two teams that lose in the playoffs each week would be seeded against each other in the final standings according to tiebreakers.

Option B: Loser's bracket as per ESPN rules, with the last week reseeded, teams will be seeded for next season based on the outcome of all the playoffs, including the loser's bracket.

Before you vote look at the projected playoffs and consider what could happen, I really don't think Option B is going to have the negative effects that you guys fear, and if the only reason to not go for Option B is that you won't care once you lose, I don't know if that's a good enough reason to prevent everybody else from having 3 more weeks to the season. I care, lol.

Option B, AFK wise, is nothing but wrong. If Gill makes the playoffs, how are you going to determine the playoffs ranks if he wins the 1st round? He'll be JL1 bound, but he won't be able to actually GO to JL1. Will just 3 people move on? The first round is simply to determine who makes it to JL1, so it should ONLY be for people who actually has a chance of going to JL1. Same for JL2 when it comes for fighting for 7th and 8th place. The AFK teams should be bumped down to last place after the regular season, and the playoffs should be determined by the new standings. And I'm cool with Option B if everyone else is, but don't be surprised if you see more AFK teams after a loss. I guess it's a way to measure dedication. So Option A and then Option B

Also, you're thinking that the tiebreaker is by PTS For, while others thinks the tiebreaker is by the record between those teams (That's where Gill's 2-1 record came from in the 4 way. He beat two of us and lost to one). Which one is it?

 

[Arkos]

Option B, AFK wise, is nothing but wrong. If Gill makes the playoffs, how are you going to determine the playoffs ranks if he wins the 1st round? He'll be JL1 bound, but he won't be able to actually GO to JL1. Will just 3 people move on? The first round is simply to determine who makes it to JL1, so it should ONLY be for people who actually has a chance of going to JL1. Same for JL2 when it comes for fighting for 7th and 8th place. The AFK teams should be bumped down to last place after the regular season, and the playoffs should be determined by the new standings. And I'm cool with Option B if everyone else is, but don't be surprised if you see more AFK teams after a loss. I guess it's a way to measure dedication. So Option A and then Option B

Vote noted, but the way it would work is: GiLL makes the playoffs, does whatever. At the end of the season, however, when we seed for next year, he would be dropped from the seeding and everybody else would be bumped up accordingly

So, say GiLL makes the playoffs, wins week 1, "makes" JL1. After the season, GiLL is dropped from the seeding and whoever is in 5th place at that point gets bumped up to 4th place, etc. As Vyer pointed out, we've been playing AFK teams all year so it would skew the results in a way to not let them play the season out.

Also, you're thinking that the tiebreaker is by PTS For, while others thinks the tiebreaker is by the record between those teams (That's where Gill's 2-1 record came from in the 4 way. He beat two of us and lost to one). Which one is it?

Head to head > points for if it's only 2 teams tied, points for if its 3+ teams

 

[Jayhawk]

Head to head > points for if it's only 2 teams tied, points for if its 3+ teams

I think you are wrong.

Source: http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/resources/help/faq?name=how-do-playoff-tiebreakers-work

When Head-to-Head record is selected as the tiebreak criteria, and in the event that three or more teams have the same winning percentage at the conclusion of the Regular Season, these teams must have played the same number of games for this criteria to be used.

They all played one game against each other, so they qualify for this.

 

[Arkos]

I think you are wrong.

Source: http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/resources/help/faq?name=how-do-playoff-tiebreakers-work

They all played one game against each other, so they qualify for this.

Eugh you're probably right about that, if that's the case then ESPN's computers will work it out, I meant in the case of manual reseeding I guess (ie the last week). Also, I tried to reverse-engineer ESPNs 3+ team tiebreakers a while back and I couldn't make it make sense, so I guess Im a little skeptical of it lol. Go look at their projected playoffs for the 3 tied teams and see if you can figure it out, maybe it's just me lol.

But, for example, if Vyer and Acer and you are tied, and Vyer beat Acer and Acer beat you and you beat Vyer, how does that tie break? That's the main thing I couldn't figure out

 

[Jayhawk]

It will be four teams that are tied, so it's a little less messy since it will be 3 games to consider per team. ErasureAcer and I pointed out the records between the four teams earlier.

 

[Arkos]

It will be four teams that are tied, so it's a little less messy since it will be 3 games to consider per team. ErasureAcer and I pointed out the records between the four teams earlier.

Okay, word, looking at it now I gotta admit that it is a lot clearer now that everybody has played each other (last time I looked it not all of the head to head matchups involved in ties had happened yet). The problem that I kept running into is that in this scenario (which looks like what we'll get):

Gill is 2-1
Peezy is 2-1
Run is 1-2
Stonking is 1-2.

Stonking's one win was against Peezy, so how do you weight that? He has a worse record in that four-person pool, but he beat one of the two "winners" of the pool in their only head to head matchup. I just wasn't sure how you weigh that type of conflict when you're trying to do head to head with 3+ people. It's not really "head to head" if Peezy gets in ahead of Stonking is it?

In addition to presenting weird dilemmas, GiLL wins by this method, which is another problem that would be avoided by going straight points for in 3+ team tie scenarios

Also, if you look at the playoff projections right now (not factoring in this week), there's a three team tie and the two teams that get into the playoffs (by ESPN's settings) are also the two teams with the most points for. I don't know if that's just coincidence or not?

 

[youngplaya21]

Vote noted, but the way it would work is: GiLL makes the playoffs, does whatever. At the end of the season, however, when we seed for next year, he would be dropped from the seeding and everybody else would be bumped up accordingly

So, say GiLL makes the playoffs, wins week 1, "makes" JL1. After the season, GiLL is dropped from the seeding and whoever is in 5th place at that point gets bumped up to 4th place, etc. As Vyer pointed out, we've been playing AFK teams all year so it would skew the results in a way to not let them play the season out.



Head to head > points for if it's only 2 teams tied, points for if its 3+ teams

I'm voting for the option that they get dropped from seeding BEFORE the playoffs. That way whoever gets bumped to 6th and 5th can still have a fighting chance to make it to JL1, instead of Gill screwing 6th out of even competing. And yeah, I'd vote for the bolded (if even possible), but I'd obviously have the most to gain by that (5th place instead of out of the playoffs). If we could pick only one, I'd go for Points, but take my vote with a grain of salt.

Edit: ^^^ the current standings could be like that for the 3 way tie because it's a triangle (I beat Stonking, who beat Corporate, who beat me). Since we're tied on that front, they could have just went to the second measure, which is Points. And looking at that link, I have no idea whatsoever how this will go down... I'm guessing that I'll be dropped to 7th, in which case Garcon will be on my shit list with Rivers for years to come...

 

[ErasureAcer]

As far as the AFK thing goes, I agree with dumping at the end of the year, but not at the end of the regular season. If consolation stuff is completely pointless, I guess I can see the point though. I just hope that - since we are doing the tiered league thing - that isn't the case.

Personally, I'm not a fan of such things being implemented *during* the season (the decimal thing biting me this year for an example). As is the case here, even someone who has had AFKs is still impacting the League and in the interest of fairness - especially considering final rank (not just playoff) will effect next year's configuration - that should play out through the course of the year.

Don't you think this should be settled in a consolation playoffs? And not some mumbo jumbo combining regular season with consolation games to improve your record. I still say the finalists of the consolation should get JL2 with the 2 losers of the first round games in the winners bracket. It gives every consolation team a reason to play week 14 and those that win a reason to play week 15 against the 2 byes(my preference for consolation). Week 16 doesn't matter unless you're tying in the winner to some draft preference over team 8 next year.

 

[ErasureAcer]

I think you are wrong.

Source: http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/resources/help/faq?name=how-do-playoff-tiebreakers-work

They all played one game against each other, so they qualify for this.

Fine points since they all played each other once but the rules in this thread back many pages I'm pretty sure say that it's points only if it's 3+ tiebreaker and not h2h. This has been my understanding the whole time. I asked this question like a month ago and that's the response I got from Arkos. As I said earlier there definitely is a case for Gill and Peezy since they have the better record in the h2h games within the 4 teams most likely to finish 6-7 but that's not how it was told to me a month ago in this thread.

 

[Arkos]

Fine points since they all played each other once but the rules in this thread back many pages I'm pretty sure say that it's points only if it's 3+ tiebreaker and not h2h. This has been my understanding the whole time. I asked this question like a month ago and that's the response I got from Arkos. As I said earlier there definitely is a case for Gill and Peezy since they have the better record in the h2h games within the 4 teams most likely to finish 6-7 but that's not how it was told to me a month ago in this thread.

Yup, that's true and that's how I think it should be

 

[ErasureAcer]

Also, we have two options for the loser's bracket:

Option A: No loser's bracket. Your season is over when you either don't make the playoffs or lose in the playoffs. 7-12 will be seeded for next season based on their regular season record, playoff teams will be seeded according to how they finish in the playoffs. Since there are no consolation games in this scenario, the two teams that lose in the playoffs each week would be seeded against each other in the final standings according to tiebreakers.

Option B: Loser's bracket as per ESPN rules, with the last week reseeded, teams will be seeded for next season based on the outcome of all the playoffs, including the loser's bracket.

This is where you're definitely not listening to me. 2 options yet I've stated multiple times there should be a third. Give 7 and 8 a bye just like 1 and 2. Winners of the consolation semifinals make JL2. Gives everyone an incentive to keep playing to make it to JL2.

 

[Jayhawk]

Yup, that's true and that's how I think it should be

That may not be how ESPN has it set up though.

 

[Arkos]

That may not be how ESPN has it set up though.

I got ya, in which case I'll make sure that everything is on the up and up (if we agree that that's a fair tiebreaker system)