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Actress Daniele Watts reported for lewd acts, goes nuts at police investigating

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K

Korey

Member
ElectricKaibutsu said:
Do you not have to show ID if a police officer asks you? Genuine question.
Click to expand...

CannonO said:
I thought you do have to show it if not doing so would prevent the officer from performing a duty related to potential criminal activity?

What? I don't get why someone would not show ID if they have one.
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You don't have to. It's your right not to show your ID. You have the right to remain silent and also to ask if you're free to leave if you're not being detained.

https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-refor...acial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you
http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/

Some states have laws where you have to identify yourself, but only if you're detained (reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime). California is not one of those states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

220px-States_with_Stop_and_Identify_Laws.png



There are lots of reasons not to show your ID. Hypothetically: If you're Mexican-American in Arizona, for example, I imagine it might be irritating and insulting to be stopped for being Mexican and to be asked to prove you're a citizen. This was a huge thing recently with the "papers please" laws Arizona tried to pass.

In this case, Daniele Watts had no reason to provide her identity, as she was doing nothing wrong and simply living her life like a normal person.
 
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DOWN

Banned
CornBurrito said:
Yeah why would anyone assert their legal rights.
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I really don't get how that's a right you benefit from. I'm seriously looking for some insight. Just the power to say no before they make you do it when they couldn't confirm your clean record?
 
D

dejay

Banned
The law on prostitution is as ridiculous as the war on drugs. Do something constructive with your time officers, like arresting actual criminals based on actual evidence. Don't profile people and hope you score by running their ID or badgering confessions out of them.
 
Dai Kaiju

Dai Kaiju

Member
ElectricKaibutsu said:
Do you not have to show ID if a police officer asks you? Genuine question.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you do. I've been asked a couple of times for my ID by cops when I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong. I asked myself "Would I rather get all high and mighty and risk getting a record for obstruction of justice or just reach into my back pocket and show my ID?"

This particular situation does seem rather fucked up though...
 
A

Armaros

Member
Dai Kaiju said:
I'm pretty sure you do. I've been asked a couple of times for my ID by cops when I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong. I asked myself "Would I rather get all high and mighty and risk getting a record for obstruction of justice or just reach into my back pocket and show my ID?"

This particular situation does seem rather fucked up though...
Click to expand...

As has been stated, in the US you only have to show ID in the states that have a "stop and ID' law, and those laws also only apply when the police have reasonable suspicion of a crime.

California is not a 'stop and ID' state and a black woman kissing a white man is not reasonable suspicion of a crime.
 
S

Strike

Member
I really don't understand how you could make a mistake like that. They fucked up. Were they even in area known for prostitution? Was she on a street corner? Was she leaning into a car? I want to hear their excuse because it sounds like all they were doing was kissing in broad daylight.
 
K

Korey

Member
Dai Kaiju said:
I'm pretty sure you do. I've been asked a couple of times for my ID by cops when I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong. I asked myself "Would I rather get all high and mighty and risk getting a record for obstruction of justice or just reach into my back pocket and show my ID?"

This particular situation does seem rather fucked up though...
Click to expand...

You don't. You can ask if you're free to leave. They can't detain you unless they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime. Even then you don't have to identify yourself, but yes there may be a tradeoff with convenience vs keeping your rights.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Glad there is photographic evidence of this.

Fuck those officers.
 
S

Somnid

Member
People seem to confuse law with consequences. You don't have to produce ID if you don't want to. Unfortunately, if the officer is asking it they are likely trying to coerce you, either because they want to hassle you or they think your cooperation will make their job easier. Whatever the case, the consequence of not complying is that you will likely be hassled. If you think escalating the situation is not in your best interest (ie. continue going about your business) then you should probably do it even if you don't have to. Likewise, if you want to make a statement about shitty cops and make a public spectacle then exercise that right but be sure to understand what you are getting yourself into.

I don't know much about police training but one would think they are trained to not coerce people if they don't have the legal right to do so. But even then if you think some PDA = prostitution you're likely an idiot and there's little hope for you anyway.
 
L

lednerg

Member
CannonO said:
I really don't get how that's a right you benefit from. I'm seriously looking for some insight. Just the power to say no before they make you do it when they couldn't confirm your clean record?
Click to expand...

The cops in this situation had no reason to know anything personal about her whatsoever. They were violating her Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. Sure, things would've been swell had she just complied, but that's really not the point. Doing so would merely be excusing their unlawful actions.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
I enjoy how many people in here equate being asked to show ID to having all of your rights waived and bringing on nazi germany in america.
 
N

numble

Member
CannonO said:
I really don't get how that's a right you benefit from. I'm seriously looking for some insight. Just the power to say no before they make you do it when they couldn't confirm your clean record?
Click to expand...
Because it makes checkpoints illegal.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Korey said:
You don't. You can ask if you're free to leave. They can't detain you unless they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime. Even then you don't have to identify yourself, but yes there may be a tradeoff with convenience vs keeping your rights.
Click to expand...
That shouldn't even be thing. Cops shouldn't power trip because you assert your rights. If they have no reason to stop and detain you why are they attempting to do so?
 
E

ElectricKaibutsu

Member
Korey said:
You don't have to. It's your right not to show your ID. You have the right to remain silent and also to ask if you're free to leave if you're not being detained.

https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-refor...acial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you
http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/

Some states have laws where you have to identify yourself, but only if you're detained (reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime). California is not one of those states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

220px-States_with_Stop_and_Identify_Laws.png



There are lots of reasons not to show your ID. Hypothetically: If you're Mexican-American in Arizona, for example, I imagine it might be irritating and insulting to be stopped for being Mexican and to be asked to prove you're a citizen. This was a huge thing recently with the "papers please" laws Arizona tried to pass.

In this case, Daniele Watts had no reason to provide her identity, as she was doing nothing wrong and simply living her life like a normal person.
Click to expand...
Really great info, thanks. She should absolutely sue.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Sorian said:
I enjoy how many people in here equate being asked to show ID to having all of your rights waived and bringing on nazi germany in america.
Click to expand...

It's not equating, but if there is no legal requirement or otherwise good reason to do so, why do it?
 
P

Paskil

Member
Sorian said:
I enjoy how many people in here equate being asked to show ID to having all of your rights waived and bringing on nazi germany in america.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is messed up. Still doesn't change the fact that you're waiving a right that was important enough to be established in the GODDAMNED BILL OF RIGHTS.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
Korey said:
You don't. You can ask if you're free to leave. They can't detain you unless they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime. Even then you don't have to identify yourself, but yes there may be a tradeoff with convenience vs keeping your rights.
Click to expand...

That's still confusing to me. Not for this case in particular as she was just totally being harassed it seems, but in general. What's so great about not showing your ID? Telling me it's my right doesn't make me think "Oh wow. How glamorous that I can say no and make this much harder for both of us."

Like what's so bad about showing ID that people keep saying 'well, it's your right not to' as if that gives me any idea why I'd exercise that right when it seems like it can indeed become very inconvenient.

It seems like people are making it out to be a bigger right than it sounds like to me.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
CannonO said:
That's still confusing to me. Not for this case in particular as she was just totally being harassed it seems, but in general. What's so great about not showing your ID? Telling me it's my right doesn't make me think "Oh wow. How glamorous that I can say no and make this much harder for both of us."

Like what's so bad about showing ID that people keep saying 'well, it's your right not to' as if that gives me any idea why I'd exercise that right when it seems like it can indeed become very inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Because the general sentiment is to stick it to the man and assert your rights against those who would try to oppress you. Yeah, this story is probably shit but we don't really get the other hundreds of news stories a day where the cop was in the right but had to deal with this hassle. If you have your ID on you, just how it. Raising suspicion on yourself over nothing seems pointless.
 
P

Paskil

Member
Sorian said:
Saves time and hassle.
Click to expand...

So what happens once she shows the ID. The cops say "Oh, this isn't a Class P license. You aren't a prostitute. You're free to go ma'am."

Is that how that plays out. How does her showing her ID benefit anyone, even the police?

Sorian said:
Because the general sentiment is to stick it to the man and assert your rights against those who would try to oppress you. Yeah, this story is probably shit but we don't really get the other hundreds of news stories a day where the cop was in the right but had to deal with this hassle. If you have your ID on you, just how it. Raising suspicion on yourself over nothing seems pointless.
Click to expand...

Nope. My showing my ID doesn't help the officer in any way because I haven't done anything wrong. What does me showing them my ID as compared to telling them my name accomplish?
 
R

_Ryo_

Member
CannonO said:
I really don't get how that's a right you benefit from. I'm seriously looking for some insight. Just the power to say no before they make you do it when they couldn't confirm your clean record?
Click to expand...

Your an internet user and your name is very threatening. I can't say you're an extremely violent person who goes around firing tracking unsuspecting victims IP addresses, stalking them and then firing cannons at them. BUT I can't say you're not someone that does that either. I have no proof! Regardless, show me your ID or I'll arrest you and embarrases you in public for no other reason than I don't like your name.

Seems ridiculous doesn't it?

Yeah, so does what the cop here did.

Women gets arrested for being black. It's stupid as fuck.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
Fiktion said:
To be clear, are you blaming the victim for not waiving her rights?
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Really? Pretty sure he's talking about why people here are inflating what it is to show your ID. I don't see him saying this girl wasn't harassed.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Sorian said:
Saves time and hassle. And yes, it is equating:
Click to expand...

It's an exaggeration used to drive home a point. I'm sure you actually do understand that.

Saves time and hassle? Maybe. But if some assholes come up and publicly humiliate you and try to force you to do something that you aren't legally obligated to do, would you be so happy to cooperate? At that point, why would you even think showing an ID would change their minds about anything?

Sorian said:
Because the general sentiment is to stick it to the man and assert your rights against those who would try to oppress you. Yeah, this story is probably shit but we don't really get the other hundreds of news stories a day where the cop was in the right but had to deal with this hassle. If you have your ID on you, just how it. Raising suspicion on yourself over nothing seems pointless.
Click to expand...

In this specific case, why do you think they would have backed down and just let her go upon seeing an ID?
 
I

Infinite

Member
Choose to assert you rights and not show police ID when you're not under suspicion of a crime. Get handcuffed. Gaf blames women for asserting her rights.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Sorian said:
No, but if you are asked, everyone can go about their day quicker if you just comply. It's just an ID.



Not quite sure where you got that from.
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I think you're confused. Do you think this just started with a couple of police officers strolling up and kindly asking for identification out of the blue?

Infinite said:
Choose to assert you rights and not show police ID when you're not under suspicion of a crime. Get handcuffed. Gaf blames women for asserting her rights.
Click to expand...

Yes, go right ahead and ignore the vast majority of posters who are absolutely not doing this.
 
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