You were salty for the wrong reasons though. Delta's flaws have little to nothing to do with Mirage. And the first half of the show was better than Frontier.
Eh, not to me it wasn't.
Frontier developped its characters progressively, with plenty of build up also in stakes and battles, and what happened to Michael had weight, and massive repercussions on Klan. Mesner showed promises, but it was sweeped rapidly under the rug, including interpersonal impact (dealt with over 1 boring "in memoriam" ep).
Freya or any Walkure really was nowhere near a character like Sheryl, even falling short of Ranka for most. Imo I'd even put Ayate and brooding Alto about on par. Ayate might be more likeable, but Alto was far more developped with a real identity by the end of the series beside being the scrappy kid embarked on an adventure which, miracle of coincidences, will reveal to him the fate of his long lost father just because he stumbled on a stowaway.
The only redeeming character which had potential was Mirage, and she was treated like complete trash.
Battles were short (mostly 5v5 dogfights where nobody was shooting nobody) and lacking any sort of epic scope baring maybe one (Messner's last), and pilot skill development was nonsensical at best.
Ayate was on par or better than Mirage within weeks, having shown promise because he could dance in a mech... Being posessed by Freyja, suddenly he can do things even Messner couldn't.
Music was also a massive difference... I know it's hard to take over after Yoko Kanno but yeesh.
So, I'll vaguely hope for a decent movie to bring some closure I guess at this point.
Just finished this what a great ending man...the feels love truly is the protoculture in its purest form...not a weapon or a way to escape death
And holy shit Lady M used to preform on MR1...anyone with half a brain knows who that is now
Best Macross since Macross 7....I fucking hated everything about Frontier sheryl/alto/ranka were shit tier characters I hated all three of them with a passion for totally different reasons
It's not that they treated her "wrong" it's that they barely developed her. I'm fine with her losing the ship, but she didn't even get a cool back story ep, nothing. Even Ranka had plot relevance. Mirage could've died during a fold booster accident in episode 2 and the show would've been the same mess it currently is. Shit half the cast could've died and it would've just gave the Elysion crew a couple of extra caskets to torpedo into space like Spock. The show had an undeveloped bloated cast with a lead that I tolerated, but didn't exactly like as much. I liked Hikaru even if that fucking block head pissed me off at times. I like Alto as well, Hayate just seemed to act the same throughout most of the show and instead of giving Mirage the drive to try to get Hayate to like her she helped the dude get Freyja. I mean yeah she did it to make Hayate happy, but try god dammit. Even Misa wasn't that much of a doormat and she washed Hikaru's dirty fucking underwear.
I mean Hayate has no real obligation to get Mirage to like him, dude likes to fly and have fun. Dude chose a person who was fun and he could enjoy being around.
A lack of development plays a role into it, but have you given thought at the fact that maybe Mirage is just naturally like that the way she is. Like she was raised and grown up to be the way she is, and even with any form of development that sort of characterization is hard to break after being enculturated into it for years? Maybe you're just projecting an idealized image of what Mirage is because she is a attractively designed, older character? She is what she is, was it an obligation to make Mirage a fun character, or she's just purposely like that because well she was raised by the incoherent mess that is the Jenius family.
Grows up loving to fly, and then basically loses all external expression of that love once she joins a Private Military Contractor. Realizes she loves flying again, by using her love for Hayate as an excuse and a vehicle to express that. Lack of development or not, it doesn't change the fact that she is a pretty boring and strict person outside of exaggerated forms of expression.
Don't get me wrong I think Mirage has a lack of development and is treated like an afterthought, but the kind of mental image and idealization of who you think Mirage should be is kind of why you're so disappointed. A boring person is a boring person, have them show some emotion once in a while doesn't change the fact they're just generally a boring person.
But we saw that kind of thing happen with Miria though. Compare how she acts in the first series, to the way she acts in Macross 7. Miria's an expressive crazy lady with no shame in Macross 7 and how she acts in that show made her one of my favorite characters in Macross 7. She was still strict in a way, but she was given some depth. With Mirage I like when she stops being this repressed person and acts like a bit of a teenage girl. Her teasing Hayate in the finale by calling a horny boy was hilarious, I just wanted her to act like that more often. I actually do think if she acted like that more often it would've made Hayate's choice a lot harder.
I mean Hayate has no real obligation to get Mirage to like him, dude likes to fly and have fun. Dude chose a person who was fun and he could enjoy being around.
A lack of development plays a role into it, but have you given thought at the fact that maybe Mirage is just naturally like that the way she is. Like she was raised and grown up to be the way she is, and even with any form of development that sort of characterization is hard to break after being enculturated into it for years? Maybe you're just projecting an idealized image of what Mirage is because she is a attractively designed, older character? She is what she is, was it an obligation to make Mirage a fun character, or she's just purposely like that because well she was raised by the incoherent mess that is the Jenius family.
Grows up loving to fly, and then basically loses all external expression of that love once she joins a Private Military Contractor. Realizes she loves flying again, by using her love for Hayate as an excuse and a vehicle to express that. Lack of development or not, it doesn't change the fact that she is a pretty boring and strict person outside of exaggerated forms of expression.
Don't get me wrong I think Mirage has a lack of development and is treated like an afterthought, but the kind of mental image and idealization of who you think Mirage should be is kind of why you're so disappointed. A boring person is a boring person, have them show some emotion once in a while doesn't change the fact they're just generally a boring person.
The only boring person in this show is Hayate since he never grow up after 26 episodes with so much screentime.
Mirage is a potentially good character but ruined by the treatment, just because you think she is boring doesn't mean everyone same with you, in fact most people will disagree what you said.
First off, I had a lot of fun with it! This was aided by the fact that I absolutely adored the music. JUNNA’s voice is magical and I hope she has a long career in the music industry ahead of her. I don’t even like anisong style music much but I have been playing the shit out of the Walkure albums and singles.
The love triangle… I know practically everyone in the thread had a problem with it. I didn’t. I thought Hayate and Frejya’s romance was really sweet and really cute! They play well off each other and you can see how natural they are when they interact. From the beginning they were both considerate and thoughtful towards each other and it was just such a sweet romance, I loved it~! I also adored Frejya’s character and liked how she became an emotional anchor to the show in the ending arc.
And now for me to preach: You don’t introduce a character with Frejya’s special condition and have her be the losing side of a love triangle.
You don’t even make a proper love triangle in that situation.
Suppose Hayate did go back and forth between the girls. Congratulations, he’s a giant douchebag mcjerkins. You don’t have a character who is
halfway through their life
be the losing side of a love triangle. You don’t have the love interest waft interest between two girls when one is
practically on her death bed
. That’s how you create unlikeable characters. And considering how hard they beat us over the head with the fact
that HEY SHE IS GOING TO DIE REALLY YOUNG
, if Mirage was a different character and used, like, SEXY BEA~M on Hayate she would have also looked like a really bad person. Mirage’s love story was dead on arrival.
Hayate wasn’t the best guy for Mirage either. They didn’t have any real chemistry with each other. Hayate is way too dense to realize anything and Mirage is way too shy to be assertive, so you’re stuck with two characters who don’t go anywhere. Mirage needs someone who is willing to put the work in to break down her walls. Hayate is too stupid to realize that she even has walls. The only way you could bring them together would be a third character, which would have been perfect aside from…you know why.
Team Pilots suffered from a bad mix of character archetypes. While Frejya had great personalities to bounce off of in Walkure and benefited from being an extrovert, Mirage really needed someone on the pilot side to open her up. You have Messer, stern and quiet. Arad is too busy being captain, and he’s not really the type to open people up. Chuck could have served that role, but he’s too minor in the grand scheme of things, and the show is already packed with so many characters it’ll be too difficult to squeeze him into a more important role. And then there’s Hayate, who she has a crush on and is too shy (and too self-depreciating/not confident enough) to open up around. So she remains dull and nonexistent because there is no real reason for her to be in the plot.
You really only got flashes in the pan of her potential personality, which, unfortunately for her fans, only really occurred when Hayate and Frejya were in a crisis between their relationship. In that aspect, Mirage only served to be a problem solver between Hayate and Frejya. But overall I found her noble. She is boring compared to the other characters, especially since Delta is full of big personalities and she's...well, not a big personality. With smarter writing she could have still been noble and a support for Hayate and Frejya (moreso than what she was in the end, which was more of a catalyst to action between them). It would make for a stronger character.
edit -- I forgot to talk about Hayate LOL. Well, that's kinda indicative of things, eh? I liked his laid back personality. I couldn't STAND Alto. Ugh, my blood is boiling just thinking about him. In contrast with that, Hayate was awesome. He's cool, really stupid at times, really dense all of the time, but he seems like a cool guy to hang out with. He could have really used more conflict to make him grow more as a person but that was reserved for Freyja, I suppose. She's more of the protagonist in this show to me than he is. He was reliable and thoughtful for others, a good chap.
I enjoyed the interactions between Walkure. I only wish we got to see more of Mikumo’s personality. :<
Kaname and Messer ;_; so good
On the Windemere side of things, I really liked Keith. I could have honestly done without so much screentime on Bogue, but really, his impulsive hotheadness was the only thing creating some sort of true tension in scenes. Heinz was an okay character at best. His motivations really only boiled down to
“I don’t want to die”, which, I mean, come on, everyone is afraid of death at one point.
B O R I N G and C L I C H E
The biggest problem with this show is that it had really great moments for me between all the characters, but it failed to string them all together in a meaningful way. I enjoyed watching the ensemble scenes. I enjoyed watching the battle scenes. But somehow, the connecting pieces (overarching plot) didn’t quite weave them as tightly as it should. Maybe another year or so in the cooking stage would have given them time to work out the kinks in the pacing. The pacing was all over the place and it ultimately created up/down/up/down situations rather than the up/up/up/up. They wasted time on some stupid scenes that should have been cut to give more important moments a time to breathe.
Towards the end it was rushing from plot point to plot point because oh shit we’re out of episodes! Yes, I LOVED the animated music video Walkure album advertisement episode, but did we really need to waste that many minutes on them singing songs when they already sing those same songs every single episode? No.
In the end, despite all of my ranting and ravings, I truly enjoyed my experience watching Macross Delta.
^What are you doing here? This is Macross Delta hate thread now.
And keep saying Mirage is "boring" is not a excuse, this is writers job to develop her, and they failed hard.
And what "big personalities"? bunch of characters just repeating same line and same line again, that's "big personalities"? that just recorder.
The only boring person in this show is Hayate since he never grow up after 26 episodes with so much screentime.
Mirage is a potentially good character but ruined by the treatment, just because you think she is boring doesn't mean everyone same with you, in fact most people will disagree what you said.
The same can exactly be said for you with how some of you are trying to project this idealized picture of what Mirage should be in your head into the character that is on screen. I really wanted Mirage to develop more and be shown more, I actually mentioned that there. I really wish we could have gotten a episode looking into her past growing up into the Jenius family and how she became the way she is. I just realize that she is what she is with what they do with her and I'm not deluding myself to think that she's some really expressive girl who took some false signs as reciprocation of interest.
It's not as if the last episode was where we magically find out she loses to Freyja, we known that for at least 5 episodes prior that Hayate is pretty set with Freyja.
We can talk about boring and not growing up all we want when the dude (Hayate): learns to become a better pilot, gets over his hatred for his father, actually figures out and makes a dedicated choice for his love interest instead of bouncing around and acting like it doesn't concern him so everyone can be happy.
Some characters are written and designed the way they are. There's a reason why people shit on Alto so much. It's just how he is.
That's not a unpopular opinion at all. The opinions are definitely mixed, but not to the point of the most worst vile disgusting thing of all time like some people here make it out to be.
Read Maclog and other blogs, it's generally mixed or positive.
Don't get me wrong I think Mirage has a lack of development and is treated like an afterthought, but the kind of mental image and idealization of who you think Mirage should be is kind of why you're so disappointed. A boring person is a boring person, have them show some emotion once in a while doesn't change the fact they're just generally a boring person.
Boring is correct, which was due to the lack of development.
When I saw her as a kid in a cockpit, they've could've written-in those scenes in earlier episodes to flesh her out. We all just knew in the end she's a self-less person.
There's plenty to complain about with this show, but those going Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage (and Hayate is awful because Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage) are hard to take seriously.
The same can exactly be said for you with how some of you are trying to project this idealized picture of what Mirage should be in your head into the character that is on screen. I really wanted Mirage to develop more and be shown more, I actually mentioned that there. I really wish we could have gotten a episode looking into her past growing up into the Jenius family and how she became the way she is. I just realize that she is what she is with what they do with her and I'm not deluding myself to think that she's some really expressive girl who took some false signs as reciprocation of interest.
It's not as if the last episode was where we magically find out she loses to Freyja, we known that for at least 5 episodes prior that Hayate is pretty set with Freyja.
We can talk about boring and not growing up all we want when the dude (Hayate): learns to become a better pilot, gets over his hatred for his father, actually figures out and makes a dedicated choice for his love interest instead of bouncing around and acting like it doesn't concern him so everyone can be happy.
Some characters are written and designed the way they are. There's a reason why people shit on Alto so much. It's just how he is.
Idealized? the only person "idealized" Mirage are the writers and their "idealized" is treat her like trash, that's it.
And seriously, i said million time, I DON'T CARE SHE WIN OR LOSE THE TRIANGLE, i'm talking about her development, but where is it? none,
>learns to become a better pilot
Where? just keep getting buff from Freyja, the last kill not even by him.
>gets over his hatred for his father
More like he never actual care about it like that's not his father.
>actually figures out and makes a dedicated choice for his love interest
And that happens in last episode which is wasting everyone's time when it can ended in 10 episodes ago.
Alto? you talk about Alto? even he is better than Hayate, problem?
There's plenty to complain about with this show, but those going Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage (and Hayate is awful because Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage) are hard to take seriously.
The same can exactly be said for you with how some of you are trying to project this idealized picture of what Mirage should be in your head into the character that is on screen. I really wanted Mirage to develop more and be shown more, I actually mentioned that there. I really wish we could have gotten a episode looking into her past growing up into the Jenius family and how she became the way she is. I just realize that she is what she is with what they do with her and I'm not deluding myself to think that she's some really expressive girl who took some false signs as reciprocation of interest.
It's not as if the last episode was where we magically find out she loses to Freyja, we known that for at least 5 episodes prior that Hayate is pretty set with Freyja.
We can talk about boring and not growing up all we want when the dude (Hayate): learns to become a better pilot, gets over his hatred for his father, actually figures out and makes a dedicated choice for his love interest instead of bouncing around and acting like it doesn't concern him so everyone can be happy.
Some characters are written and designed the way they are. There's a reason why people shit on Alto so much. It's just how he is.
That's not a unpopular opinion at all. The opinions are definitely mixed, but not to the point of the most worst vile disgusting thing of all time like some people here make it out to be.
Read Maclog and other blogs, it's generally mixed or positive.
We're a bit pissed cause within 5 eps after this show started Freyja was the default. First Macross ship is still the best one cause that shit was a knock down drag out fight with Misa getting the shit kicked out of her on an episodic basis and just when you thought she was done getting her fucking teeth kicked in she picked herself up, dusted herself off, washed the blood out of her clothing and came back and got back into the fight. Misa fought, Mirage didn't. I wanted the drama of both parties learning more about each other and growing to appreciate a person they weren't expecting to. This isn't what happened in Delta. It was essentially here's Hayate, Freyja and Mirage, Hayate likes Freyja sort of maybe and Freyja likes Hayate, Mirage is...Mirage is Mirage she might like Hayate at some point, but Hayate ain't going to like her back, he'll buy her some ice cream though. The dynamic just wasn't that interesting. It just got to the point where Mirage just became the babysitter and mediator for two immature ass people.
There's plenty to complain about with this show, but those going Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage (and Hayate is awful because Mirage Mirage Mirage Mirage) are hard to take seriously.
Dude it's Macross. The love triangle is one of the key elements and they focked it up. The only worse one is in Plus where one of the active triangle participants is a damn attempted rapist.
Well to be fair, you have to go back to the original to find a Macross TV series that resolves its romance plot. Frontier was a giant tease and 7 didn't give a fuck.
I mean you're not wrong at all. This was the first really resolved the romance aspect because Frontier TV sure as hell didn't and Theatrical Frontier teased it. Not sure what people are expecting.
It even gave us two resolved love triangles, but resolved pretty much in a similar way where one person is sitting off to the side grasping at some straws since their pairing dynamic has been established for several episodes.
The issues I had with MacDelta is that the pacing skews really poorly post a very strong first half. I thought it would be something a bit special because it focuses more on the human-human aspect of it, rather than blowing up and trying to understand space bugs that are connected through internet waves and violent alien lifeforms. It really could have been a more grounded series that focuses on that, but ends up blowing up in a Macross fashion where grounded isn't enough and Kawamori decides that it's better to be Evangelion and Gundam Unicorn, instead of 08th MS and Stardust.
From the midway point we get hints of tuning and the idea of using music as a deterrent and a weapon with Messer being the first instance of being tuned and controlled by Kaname. They could have gradually add on to that by expanding on the Song of the Wind and see a more personal conflict with established grey sides, but introducing the Song of the Stars and ramping up the spectacle of what's to come really hurt it because everything they hinted at and focused on suddenly switches gears into a large scale weapon and a conflict that becomes too big for it's own good.
Outside of that I found that they handled characters like Kaname really well. You get to see so many different facets to her in the background while the foreground focuses on the many of the series tropes.
I mean people are entitled to their opinions but I find it funny and odd how vocal some people are in characterizing the series as straight up the worst thing ever contrast to other opinions elsewhere, when there are plenty of flaws in the series that are shared in several past series.
Is it confirmed that they're working an a Movie/OVA release sometime later?
Just noticed that "Roid" is probably a mis-translation of Lloyd...
Anyway... Bamco is releasing the game in a few weeks or so, i've read they're tacking on half of the story as DLC later. Dunno how I will manage that... with the Vita account shenanigans.
Is it confirmed that they're working an a Movie/OVA release sometime later?
Just noticed that "Roid" is probably a mis-translation of Lloyd...
Anyway... Bamco is releasing the game in a few weeks or so, i've read they're tacking on half of the story as DLC later. Dunno how I will manage that... with the Vita account shenanigans.
Have homebrew on my PSTV, but on a Vita - am wary of fiddling with accounts via homebrew. But hey - maybe Bamco will scoop them all up in a second iteration like on the PSP (which I would still buy regardless).
Still have to get my PS3 fixed and actually play 30 on it. Is it much longer than the PSP games?
I mean you're not wrong at all. This was the first really resolved the romance aspect because Frontier TV sure as hell didn't and Theatrical Frontier teased it. Not sure what people are expecting.
It even gave us two resolved love triangles, but resolved pretty much in a similar way where one person is sitting off to the side grasping at some straws since their pairing dynamic has been established for several episodes.
The issues I had with MacDelta is that the pacing skews really poorly post a very strong first half. I thought it would be something a bit special because it focuses more on the human-human aspect of it, rather than blowing up and trying to understand space bugs that are connected through internet waves and violent alien lifeforms. It really could have been a more grounded series that focuses on that, but ends up blowing up in a Macross fashion where grounded isn't enough and Kawamori decides that it's better to be Evangelion and Gundam Unicorn, instead of 08th MS and Stardust.
From the midway point we get hints of tuning and the idea of using music as a deterrent and a weapon with Messer being the first instance of being tuned and controlled by Kaname. They could have gradually add on to that by expanding on the Song of the Wind and see a more personal conflict with established grey sides, but introducing the Song of the Stars and ramping up the spectacle of what's to come really hurt it because everything they hinted at and focused on suddenly switches gears into a large scale weapon and a conflict that becomes too big for it's own good.
Outside of that I found that they handled characters like Kaname really well. You get to see so many different facets to her in the background while the foreground focuses on the many of the series tropes.
I mean people are entitled to their opinions but I find it funny and odd how vocal some people are in characterizing the series as straight up the worst thing ever contrast to other opinions elsewhere, when there are plenty of flaws in the series that are shared in several past series.
But it didn't seem right. I find my new Sharon Apple avatar so very much better. That and I think I seem to like the ones I have to put the most amount of time into. This one and my last Misa one took some work.
The Macross Saga
The New Generation
The Robotech Masters
Robotech the Movie
Macross the Clash of the Bionoids
Robotech the Shadow Chronicles
Robotech Love Live Alive
Robotech Academy Kickstarter
The Macross Saga
The New Generation
The Robotech Masters
Robotech the Movie
Macross the Clash of the Bionoids
Robotech the Shadow Chronicles
Robotech Love Live Alive
Robotech Academy Kickstarter
The Macross Saga
The New Generation
The Robotech Masters
Robotech the Movie
Macross the Clash of the Bionoids
Robotech the Shadow Chronicles
Robotech Love Live Alive
Robotech Academy Kickstarter
Macross 7
SDF/DRYL
Kid A
Delta
Frontier
FF6
Plus
Zero
Though I think Plus and Zero are basically tied. I enjoyed watching Zero slightly more because it didn't have Isamu or Guld but the highs of Plus are just so good.
It's kind of hard for me to put Plus, Seven and DYRL over or under each other. They both have things that I didn't enjoy about each of them, but I still enjoyed them greatly by the time they were all over. All I can really concretely say that OG Macross and Frontier are my favorites with Delta being my least favorite and Delta is kind of just at the bottom because I felt it just didn't handle their characters well enough. I'll watch Delta again at some point though...I hope.
SDF = DYRL
Frontier (movies included)
PLUS = 7
Delta
Zero
Macross II
Plus and 7 are tied because I enjoy them equally but for very different reasons, Zero has awesome dogfights but IMO the story is bad and the characters are bad too, except for Roy and maybe Mao, And Macross II is a DYRL rehash with worse protagonists and worse antagonists.
ok ok, i'll take out Clash of the Bionoids you harmony gold lovers =P
i think there too much hate for Macross II,
at the time, that was the only sign of continuation of Macross so i was extremely happy something Macross was coming out.
and when plus came out, i thought ok, more macross and was really happy.
Macross 7 came out i was like huh? but very happy something macross.
once Zero came out i was so freakin happy we were going back to the vf-1 design. didn't really care about the story. the significance of having Roy Focker in a vf-1 inspired 0s made me shed a tear. it was so beautiful to see the first transformation.
yamato coming out with all those vf-1 then vf-0 toys was just heaven!!
and then with frontier, i was so happy macross was continuing.
same with Delta. i'm very happy Macross is not extinct but it's relevant today to argue over.
i'm so supporting the franchise by buying many valks.
i can't wait to pre-order the Sv-262Hs, i want to get doubles of each type.
And I'll put the rest of the shows tied, but at the bottom. Frontier, 7, Delta. It's always been pretty hard for me to like a non-OVA/non-Movie since the original. Each has aspects I've liked, but for example.
Seven should not have been 50 Episodes. While I think the characters and resolution are more solid than the others, it cycle the monster of the week way too much.
Frontier and Delta, I really can't recall much of. I thought the ending for Frontier was good and I liked Sheryl. But everything else, was pretty meh... and it is scary how much of Delta I already forgot.
